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Post by CMF Newsman on Jul 20, 2012 6:59:13 GMT -5
HAMILTON COUNTY, TN -- With the first federal court hearing less than a week away in a lawsuit two men filed against Hamilton County over County Commission prayers, briefs on a motion for preliminary injunction now have been filed. In June, Brandon Jones and Tommy Coleman filed a complaint in the Eastern District of Tennessee alleging violations of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause. Later that month, the pair filed a motion asking the court to order the commission to halt its prayer practices until U.S. Judge Harry S. "Sandy" Mattice could rule on the case. On June 21, Mattice set a hearing on the motion for preliminary injunction for July 26. Read more at www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/20/briefs-filed-in-prayer-lawsuit-hamilton-county/
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Post by Justin Thyme on Jul 20, 2012 12:32:40 GMT -5
Personally I don't see that Jones or Coleman have standing to bring this suit. I would think one of the commissioners or the county mayor would have to do so. In this case the public is only witnessing the prayer in which the commissioners are participating in. The commissioners are not leading the public in prayer.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 13:19:33 GMT -5
Government never fixes itself.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Jul 20, 2012 14:53:29 GMT -5
Government never fixes itself. On this specific subject I'm not sure its broke. I can see and agree that displaying the 10 Commandments in the courthouse violates the 1st Amendment. I fully agree that public prayer has no place in a public school. However, if the county commissioners decide among themselves that they want to open their meetings with prayer that is their prayer and no one but the commissioners are being made to attend. That is why I believe Jones and Coleman lack standing. They are not being injured by the action.
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 15:06:34 GMT -5
Public prayer in school is not unconstitutional. School employees leading the prayer is unconstitutional. Same here, JT. Prayer at the meetings is not unconstitutional. The commissioners leading the prayer is unconstitutional. As been said by those filing the suit, a citizen could lead a prayer during the meetings' public comments allotment and all would be fine.
The First Amendment does not include the words "only in places citizens are forced to attend" or "not being injured".
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 20, 2012 16:53:52 GMT -5
It's the culture of the "victim" hard at work. People who feel or ARE insignificant must figure EVERYBODY'S victimizing them, including the Government. My only sadness comes from watching that little girl used as a pawn by those with larger, more distant, unspeakable agendas. The Constitution doesn't promise a life free of "Stress", just FREEDOM.
Wonder if that little bastard in Aurora believes there's no God or he has no soul?
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Post by Justin Thyme on Jul 20, 2012 16:59:03 GMT -5
JC is it constitutionally okay for the county commission to say a prayer among themselves in a closed meeting? From what I'm seeing in open meetings the county commission is not leading the observers in a public prayer but are having a prayer amongst themselves with observers present. When I say that Jones and Coleman lack standing I'm saying that their civil rights weren't violated. Observing a prayer among the commissioners is not a violation of rights. They were not injured. They have nothing to sue over.
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 18:21:04 GMT -5
"JC is it constitutionally okay for the county commission to say a prayer among themselves in a closed meeting? " No. It doesn't matter if a meeting is open or closed. It is unconstitutional for government officials to establish any religion whilst preforming their duties. But unless one of those in attendance cares, who would know. "From what I'm seeing in open meetings the county commission is not leading the observers in a public prayer but are having a prayer amongst themselves with observers present." Not sure what the difference is really. Government officials establishing religion is government officials establishing religion, no matter how you want to word it, but they are indeed leading a prayer and it is specific to Christianity. Lots of footage of the meetings on youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMFo9n_KxFQ
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 18:37:52 GMT -5
It's the culture of the "victim" hard at work. People who feel or ARE insignificant must figure EVERYBODY'S victimizing them, including the Government. So, people who believe in following the Constitution are insignificant and below you? The only parts of the Constitution that matters are the parts that you agree with? Have you read the Constitution? Serious question. Not sure how that mass murder is relevant to this issue.
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Post by apriled on Jul 20, 2012 18:49:22 GMT -5
What a waste of resources. Sure, Gov does not fix itself, but it ain't broke bad enough with regard to an opening prayer. This is a non issue.
These are people that do not see the real priorities that need repair in County government, 1) pervasive nepotism, 2) bid and contract corruption, 3) pervasive waste, 4) pay inequity and disparity...
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 20, 2012 18:54:08 GMT -5
The culture of the victim has little or nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with inadequte personality disorder and it's prevalence in our society.
Yes. I just don't INTERPRET it within the popular culture definition.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Assad, etc. THAT'S what it has to do with it.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 19:02:17 GMT -5
Nice to know how you feel about those that follow the Constitution, Officer. How do you feel about the rest of the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendment?
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 19:08:36 GMT -5
What a waste of resources. Sure, Gov does not fix itself, but it ain't broke bad enough with regard to an opening prayer. This is a non issue. These are people that do not see the real priorities that need repair in County government, 1) pervasive nepotism, 2) bid and contract corruption, 3) pervasive waste, 4) pay inequity and disparity... In a garden, an overlooked tiny little june bug can destroy plants just as quickly as an easily seen gopher. If a local Government will disregard the very first rule they are bound to uphold, then we have no chance as a society.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 20, 2012 19:34:00 GMT -5
How do YOU feel about surrendering your Liberties by degrees, like slowly bleeding to death, to fulfill the "stress free" existence of people with endless depth and no boundaries of imagined "grievance"?
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Post by JC on Jul 20, 2012 20:54:44 GMT -5
Ahh... I see. You're loosing your liberty by not having religion in government. Got it.
Yup, I have a "mental disorder" for believing in the Constitution.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 20, 2012 22:03:05 GMT -5
I haven't "loosed" my Liberty on anybody in a long time.
You can believe in the Constitution all you want, but you ARE crazy if you expect to diminish MY Liberty to impose YOUR view of it without a fight.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 20, 2012 22:05:13 GMT -5
Yeah, THAT'S gotta make it like you say; I'll watch for those bugs and gophers you keep seeing
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Post by JC on Jul 21, 2012 19:42:42 GMT -5
I haven't "loosed" my Liberty on anybody in a long time. You can believe in the Constitution all you want, but you ARE crazy if you expect to diminish MY Liberty to impose YOUR view of it without a fight. Humf. Seems only a few in the religious right feel the First Amendment does not apply to Christianity in government. Funny thing is, these are the first ones to scream bloody murder as soon as a Muslim runs for office. "OMG! SHARIA LAW!!! Keep religion out of government", they say. And I'm not sure why you think this is a modern day liberal interpretation. The Establishment Clause is dated 1787. The 14th Amendment, which applies the Constitution to the states, is dated 1868. There's lots of case law on this issue and it is very clear. The government can not, I repeat, can not establish nor show preference to any religion. From Cornell Law school: www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause"The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion." Course, I expect you to call me, the SCOTUS and a couple hundred year old document crazy for trampling your so called "liberty" again. I suggest you look up the definition of that word, by the way. And I am still waiting for you to answer my questions from above.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jul 21, 2012 21:25:33 GMT -5
The culture of the victim has little or nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with inadequte personality disorder and it's prevalence in our society. Yes. I just don't INTERPRET it within the popular culture definition. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Assad, etc. THAT'S what it has to do with it. Not only sinecured, but also syndicated; I get royalties for repeats
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Post by ssmynkint on Jul 21, 2012 21:34:34 GMT -5
Then you're a rich man! You buy the next round.
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Post by CMF Newsman on Jul 23, 2012 6:36:43 GMT -5
HAMILTON CO. – Both parties in a federal lawsuit over prayer at Hamilton County Commission meetings claim the First Amendment is on their side. In the six weeks since Brandon Jones and Tommy Coleman sued Hamilton County over the commission's regular Christian prayers during meetings, the county courthouse has drawn dozens of people expressing their thoughts and emotions through silent protest, prayer, public comment and, occasionally, verbal confrontation. Still, at its core, the dispute is a legal struggle between two parties over two clauses in the first 16 of 45 words in an amendment to the U.S. Constitution passed by Congress in 1789 and ratified by the states in 1791. www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/23/both-sides-say-first-amendment-is-in/
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Post by JC on Jul 23, 2012 14:40:26 GMT -5
The culture of the victim has little or nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with inadequte personality disorder and it's prevalence in our society. Yes. I just don't INTERPRET it within the popular culture definition. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Assad, etc. THAT'S what it has to do with it. Not only sinecured, but also syndicated; I get royalties for repeats Fine, I'll play on your level. Little Red Ridding Hood, Harry Potter, Rumpelstiltskin
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Post by gridbug on Jul 24, 2012 8:25:52 GMT -5
Isn't it lovely for the Hamilton County Commission to so blatantly remind the people that they only represent the citizens that share their faith and that they would just as well piss on the rest of us? How Christian of them.
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