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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 26, 2007 20:54:05 GMT -5
I think grid just ended the lesson.
And yes, we have plenty of room at 601 Walnut Street and 1600 E. Third Street to house 100+ of trespassing youths each and every time someone sends a text message that there is gonna be a fight at the Riverpark.
Yep, kick out a couple hundred of un-adjudicated (and adjudicated) murderers, pedophiles, predators and rapists to make room for juvenilish hooligans.
Brilliant.
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Kordax
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Post by Kordax on Mar 26, 2007 20:58:12 GMT -5
Yep, kick out a couple hundred of un-adjudicated (and adjudicated) murderers, pedophiles, predators and rapists to make room for juvenilish hooligans.
So street-wise juvenile punk predators know we can't jail them -- we're out of space?
No wonder they're wilding at will out there ....
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 26, 2007 21:09:32 GMT -5
OK, Kordax? So you are leading the campaign to build even more jail space?
Seriously......you build it, we will fill it for ya. TCA is voluminous.
And they were allegedly predating upon whom? Themselves?
Darwin had it right, you know.
And how many "victims" went to the Baroness?
Zero!
How many "regular people" were accosted or put out or even affected?
Zero!
How many late night, although well lit, joggers, moon-watchers and bat enthusiasts were troubled by the trouble on the Riverwalk?
Zero!
This is a non-story created by those that need or want a story.
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Post by mongrel227 on Mar 26, 2007 21:54:55 GMT -5
On the current Chattanoogan.com poll, of 728 respondents, 91 percent think gang activity was taking place at the Riverpark.
The other 9 percent....are like Crash.
As has been stated so often before, thanks be to God that he is in the minority, both in the law enforcement profession, and society in general.
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 27, 2007 3:50:28 GMT -5
Police officer tells area parents gangs not just in big cities
ROB SHAPARD : The Herald-Sun CHAPEL HILL -- Gangs aren't just a problem for Durham or other large cities around North Carolina. And solving the problem isn't solely a matter of arresting everyone involved in gangs and keeping them behind bars. Those were a couple of the points that Chapel Hill police officer Mitch McKinney made Sunday during a presentation at East Chapel Hill High School on gang awareness. Law-enforcement officers clearly have to be part of the solution, but the broader community has to get involved in understanding and addressing the problem, he said. Mc-Kinney has studied both local and regional gang issues as well as national trends, and he gives presentations regularly to various groups.
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Kordax
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Post by Kordax on Mar 27, 2007 10:33:33 GMT -5
From the linked article: "but the broader community has to get involved in understanding and addressing the problem, he said."
Let's say that the "broader community" in Chattanooga begins to "understand" & "address" the gang problem.
What does that mean?
That everyone is literate in gang grafitti or gang signing? Regular citizens know how to identify their within group dress codes? Should we all take-a-gang-member-home with us for "mentoring" purposes? Do we avoid gang-centric parts of town once we know who they are?
The so-called parents of gangbangers have already done the best job they're capable of doing in raising the little thugs -- demanding better parenting from that low life stock of random breeders is futile at best but dangerously beside the point.
If the police give up on doing their part to remove these thugs from the skools they're already infecting, from the neighborhoods they're blighting, and from the malls, parks & playgrounds where they actively menace the innocent public, how in the hell can joe blow average citizen step into the fray & expect anything other than a trip to the nearest ER or morgue?
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Post by daworm on Mar 27, 2007 11:06:39 GMT -5
Crash, I don't think you are getting my point at all... I suppose I am being too sarcastic for a text only medium. I'll try to be a bit more clear.
What I am commenting on is the fact that I, a normal law abiding citizen, am prevented from enjoying the Riverparks and Riverwalk after dark, whereas criminals and punks apparently can go out there at will with no repercussions. (Ok, I probably wouldn't be arrested for going out there after dark myself, but with all the gates shut I can't ride my bike very well, unless I learn to leap hedges, and I am not inclined to break the law in such a way in the first place).
To me, there is something very wrong with that. We are letting the actions of criminals and thugs dictate what law abiding citizens can and cannot do on public property. It should be the other way around.
You complain about where to put them... If they knew there would be repercussions, even just a trip downtown and a fine, and saw it happen with their own beady little eyes a few times, do you really think they'd keep doing it? But I don't want them arrested in the first place, and in fact my comment had nothing to do with the recent fights there. My point was that the Riverwalk shouldn't be closed at night in the first place. That is allowing the criminal element to dictate the actions of law abiding citizens, and that shouldn't be tolerated.
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 27, 2007 13:07:19 GMT -5
I get our point, Worm. The "Everybody else is doing it, so I am innocent defense" never works for me!
They should at least've been cited for the unlawful activity of Criminal Trespass and if found guilty, they could pick up trash for several weekends and pay a fine, each. That would pay for all the tickets anyway.
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Post by LimitedRecourse on Mar 27, 2007 13:16:55 GMT -5
An underlying issue that has not been openly addressed is: What will be the repercussions and reactions from the "community leaders" if the police were to actually arrest/cite all those youths. I'm thinking the first or second accusation will be tinged with racial undertones (if not filled with blatant yells of it).
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Post by karyotic on Mar 27, 2007 17:55:44 GMT -5
The key word in all of this is "youths". Law enforcement should not be expected to be baby sit other folks children.
Worm & Crash are on the right track with the citations, fines and holding them accountable. It amazes me on this Police Blotter forum that our officers don't get the respect that they have earned. These guys are out there DOING something about problem issues while cowards hide behind their screen names, whine, name call and accomplish nothing. These problems in our area developed over time and only time can remedy them. To hold the parents accountable is a decent start but you'll be hard pressed to do it. I worked in the inner city schools for 2 years and many of the parents are children themselves. This is not going to fix itself.
Kordax, why not mentor? You may learn something about yourself. If not, move to the boon docks and sit on your porch with your shotgun.
My now 26 year old had a problem with speeding tickets when she was 16 and Judge Williams made a point to call me on it the second time she was in court. (She managed to get the first one past me with help from some other adults.) Yes, I was "too strict" but she is a better adult for it. Frankly, in reflection, I was grateful because when she heard the judge scold me she knew there was no way she would get her keys back.
These are young people that really don't have a place to gather. I'd be willing to bet you that some of them lied to their own parents about their whereabouts that night. A large gathering of white kids won't scare people but they are usually better behaved and don't call as much attention to themselves. They don't usually hit each other because they don't like to get hit back. Not only that, they have other things to do with their time.
**If you force them into community service they will have to be supervised the entire time. **Don't try to scare them with jail stories as many of them have parents who have done jail time. *** If you really care about the situation, do something positive and stop bitching. Your complaints only make it worse.
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Kordax
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Post by Kordax on Mar 27, 2007 18:08:13 GMT -5
What will be the repercussions and reactions from the "community leaders" if the police were to actually arrest/cite all those youths.
That's already the case in public skools -- teachers have been officially "sensitized" to the disciplinary numbers -- White/Black & children with diagnosed "disabilities" like ADD & its cousin ailments Tennesseans are afflicted with more than any other state. Conforming to acceptable Black/White ratios means that teachers use caution when disciplining Black kids for cause -- many of them skate (and they know in advance that they will) because of within-skool racial politics. It's a sad thing to see a bunch of educrats in a room moaning about lack of discipline but at the same time, deeply frightened to address Black kids' misbehavior with an adequate level of discipline.....
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 27, 2007 19:51:56 GMT -5
Kordax (And everybody else who has contributed to these discussions, save 1 or 2): I truly hope ya'll were listening to the Live and Local show (WGOW) today. First, HCSO PIO Rice was on and did his usual jam-up job. Then, CPD had their contingent in and Officer Todd Royval (Absolutely one of the finest officers I have ever had the honor to work with, BTW) who outlined the programs (These have been in the planning stages for months) that have been suggested on here recently to deal with the thugs and wannabe thugs. If you missed it, please see if they have it saved. Impressive. Actual people, with actual support (Manpower and funding) addressing problems that have been ignored in the past. More power to them. Having been in LE for 24 years, this is the most positive I have ever felt about the current direction (And leadership) of the HCSO and the CPD. I think the citizens are going to be pleasantly surprised at what we can do with intelligent Administrators (Both former street level cops so they have some sense of things) who are going to DEMAND the funding required for us to successfully do our jobs. We have been wanting to do these things and to be able to talk about these things for decades (In my case). We (as a societal unit) have always been successfully muzzled and I accept the responsibility for not pushing harder than we have. We sat by, did our jobs, were injured, burnt out and died while the ass-hats in charge fucked everything up and told the public how "safe" we were when we freakin' knew they were lying. I gotta take the hit for that. I only speak for myself, here.I think we can relieve many of the crime problems (If given the necessary tools and support) in The Metro Hamilton County area. We can do it despite the Board of Education, the Hamilton County Commission, the Chattanooga City Commission, some in the local media, a few cop car-chasing attorneys and all the other two-faced, Monday morning quarterbacking, naysayers and blame throwers, one of whom is currently absent. (I won't kick an idiotic, rambling nincompoop when she is down, so I won't say anything negative about the anti-cop SOB, until she is back on her knees, at least.) How can an LE Agency (Or it's people) get better if they are not willing to listen to the people they serve? 99.9 % of posters on the CMF Police Blotter have intelligent, well thought out and eloquent criticisms, questions and/or bitches about their local cop (Or cops). Where else can you a cop and not catch a white cab ride to the Baroness? Talk about a public service! Whether I think the aforementioned criticisms, questions and/or bitches are valid or not, they are valid to a sincere poster and they deserve an answer. And no one can answer every question. If I don't know, I will tell you I don't freakin' know. Like the response or not, I (and all the other LE on here, I am sure) will do their best to address the issue(s) at hand. But be forewarned, if you poke a pig with a stick, don't act all surprised, swolt up and red around the ass, when he/she pokes back harder. It is what we do. We win every argument at work.
The above is my OPINION and solely mine. I speak for no other LE Agency, or member, of any LE Agency.
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Kordax
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Post by Kordax on Mar 27, 2007 20:30:18 GMT -5
Remarkable, cogent post!
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Post by one on Mar 27, 2007 20:37:31 GMT -5
When I went roller blading at riverwalk a few days ago the rangers were checking id's on everyone that went in, disallowing anyone under 18 to enter without a guardian.
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Felix
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Post by Felix on Mar 27, 2007 21:06:20 GMT -5
One reported re: riverwalk admittance: ....disallowing anyone under 18 to enter without a guardian. *sigh* That is a shame. A few mess it up for the many. I understand the need for the exclusion. Still a shame.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 27, 2007 22:38:23 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what happens if someone doesn't have ID? It's not a requirement (yet) for ID to move about freely.
Also, if you want to do something about gangs: Build a large, walled compound and just turn them loose. Not just anywhere. Have you ever driven across Canada? Do so some time. Get one of those spots that is literally 50 miles from the nearest building, build a road about 100 miles back, and simply airdrop food in once in a while.
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 28, 2007 3:20:23 GMT -5
If one cannot demonstrate that one is 18, then one is not 18!
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 28, 2007 21:14:09 GMT -5
What happens if one cannot demonstrate that one is a legal citizen?
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 28, 2007 21:35:35 GMT -5
We usually just kill 'em right there and try to blame it on a Democrat.
So you can live and not be "profiled" as a Democrat.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 28, 2007 22:20:56 GMT -5
I just might approve...
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Diremaker
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Post by Diremaker on Mar 29, 2007 1:35:09 GMT -5
CRIME DETERRENTS FOR COOLIDGE PARK & THE RIVERPARK Simple suggestions to make these locations safer for the general populace... For Coolidge Park: For The Riverpark: (have to be sneakier... it has trees) That should slow em down a little...
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Post by tcrashfx on Mar 29, 2007 7:39:40 GMT -5
Youths Use Cell Phones To Summon Crowd To Riverpark
"Gang" Information On Report Not Mentioned In County Press Release
posted March 28, 2007 A large crowd was summoned to the Tennessee Riverpark last Saturday night using cell phones, and one person at the park with the text message had gang sign photos on his phone, according to a report obtained by Chattanoogan.com. The report by Park Ranger Wayne E. Gann said a message went out: "Cookout today at Riverpark at 6:30. Everbody come out and chill. Send dis ta everbody you know. We tryin get da whole Chatt. out." It says one 15-year-old youth at the fishing park that night had photos on his cell phone with "Blood Favor of Southland People with (Man Man) and Skyline Group (Bloods)." The report says that youth, another youth and 19-year-old David L. Townsend of 5001 Florida Ave. in St. Elmo were stopped around the Fry Center when they were coming to the party.
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