Toyota recalls

[Jay]

"Toyota has pinpointed the issue that could, on rare occasions, cause accelerator pedals in recalled vehicles to stick in a partially open position. The issue involves a friction device in the pedal designed to provide the proper “feel” by adding resistance and making the pedal steady and stable.

The device includes a shoe that rubs against an adjoining surface during normal pedal operation. Due to the materials used, wear and environmental conditions, these surfaces may, over time, begin to stick and release instead of operating smoothly. In some cases, friction could increase to a point that the pedal is slow to return to the idle position or, in rare cases, the pedal sticks, leaving the throttle partially open.

Toyota’s solution for current owners is both effective and simple. A precision-cut steel reinforcement bar will be installed into the assembly that will reduce the surface tension between the friction shoe and the adjoining surface. With this reinforcement in place, the excess friction that can cause the pedal to stick is eliminated. The company has confirmed the effectiveness of the newly reinforced pedals through rigorous testing on pedal assemblies that had previously shown a tendency to stick.

Separately from the recall for sticking accelerator pedals, Toyota is in the process of recalling vehicles to address rare instances in which floor mats have trapped the accelerator pedal in certain Toyota and Lexus models (announced November 25, 2009), and is already notifying customers about how it will fix this issue. In the case of vehicles covered by both recalls, it is Toyota’s intention to remedy both at the same time."

www.toyotarecall.org/official-press-release/press-release-february-1-2010/

[el Gusano]

The long term reliability studies used to be 10 years and 100,000 miles, and would judge things such as engines, transmissions, major repairs, minor repairs, etc.

The new ones are only 3 years and 36,000 miles, and power window operation is equal to engine reliability.

The true long-term studies are still available if you search, and Mercedes tops the list, followed by Lexus. At one point, you could also find really long-term studies (200,000+), but I've not looked online and haven't bought those magazines in years.

The longest running car ever is a 1966 Volvo with over 2 million miles on it and still being driven daily by its original owner. (And, 40 years after Gordon took the keys, the car has the same engine, same radio, same axles, same transmission and of course, the same driver. He is the only person who has ever driven his P1800.) There's an '89 Saab that just passed 1 million miles recently. There are a few Mercedes with over a millions miles, 6 known Toyotas with over a million miles, and 2 Hondas. Couldn't find a Buick with over a million miles on it, though. (These are all on the original engines. There are some higher mileage cars that have had new engines.) I did come across a Chevy that died just short of a million miles, but it has had 6 transmissions.

[Deleted]

and speaking of the Toyota recall - - -

I'm trying to reconcile statements of a "sticking" throttle pedal with statements of "the car suddenly zoomed ahead".

So far, no luck.

[Justin Thyme]

Gus, you still have to be reliable for three years before you can be reliable for ten and if the power window motor is not reliable how can I be sure the rest of the car will be any more reliable.

In another five years the Buick models that have been besting the Toyotas on the three year reliability surveys should be usurping the Toyotas on the ten year reliability surveys. In seven years you will see the Lexuses usurped on those ten year surveys.

[BlackFox]

My 98 F-150 has 272,000 miles on it. Original everything except alternator and thermostat. Still haven't changed the belt. I changed spark plugs at 75,000 and didn't change them again until 250,000. They didn't have any electrode left. Changed transmission fluid at 90,000 and changed it again at 250,000.

[Jay]

Feb 2, 2010 15:41:12 GMT -5 Justin Thyme said:

and if the power window motor is not reliable how can I be sure the rest of the car will be any more reliable.

I'd be a bit more upset if my transmission died, compared to the power window motor.

Different problems should be weighed differently.

[mandrake]

Feb 2, 2010 15:37:53 GMT -5 @yodanbr2 said:

and speaking of the Toyota recall - - -

I'm trying to reconcile statements of a "sticking" throttle pedal with statements of "the car suddenly zoomed ahead".

So far, no luck.

Me too, if that drawing is really what their fix is, I'm astonished.
That "precision cut steel reinforcement bar" is nothing but a stop block so the friction device doesn't mesh as deeply. I suspect that with a little more dirt and /or more corrosion caused by condensation, they're back in the same situation. Were it my car, I would want the redesigned assembly.

I won't be surprised if at some later date another episode comes to light of sudden high rate acceleration.

[Jay]

It definitely seems like it could be designed better...

[el Gusano]

My wife pointed out that the cruise control knob is on the steering wheel. Wondered if someone might have tried to do something else, but accidentally hit it?

[Deleted]

The cruise control notion is a fair idea except that cruise control disconnects immediately when one uses the brake or clutch pedals.

I wonder if we're into "fly by wire" territory. That is, instead of the gas pedal being connected by a cable to a throttle valve, it's connected to a sensor that directs a "computer" to actually activate the throttle valve. To say it another way, the throttle plate is not moved by the gas pedal but rather by a servo controlled by a computer. If that's the case, then the computer/servo combination would be more suspect to me than a simple sticking foot feed.

I do not know if my fly by wire guess is legitimate. Do we have any forumites who actually do know about such things as they might apply to Toyotas - or other automobiles?

Suppose I am on the right track. One might surmise that the opposite problem could occur - that pressing on the gas pedal would have no effect on throttle position - meaning that the car wouldn't go. In fact, I do know of one such example. It was on a Pontiac Vibe which I'm told is actually a Toyota Matrix. The solution to that problem was to replace the computer.

[Jay]

Feb 4, 2010 7:54:56 GMT -5 @yodanbr2 said:

It was on a Pontiac Vibe which I'm told is actually a Toyota Matrix. The solution to that problem was to replace the computer.

The Vibe and Matrix are twins!

I have a Matrix. It's a really nice car. It's basically a Corolla, w/ a different exterior design.

And luckily, I haven't had the problem you had on the Vibe.

[el Gusano]

I thought the Matrix had a different engine? The last time I looked, Lotus was using the Corolla engine, though.

But, Yoda, I pointed that out to someone and his reply was, "would they think of that if the car just suddenly took off?"

[Jay]

Feb 4, 2010 14:42:17 GMT -5 el Gusano said:

I thought the Matrix had a different engine?

Nope. They use the same engines.

[mandrake]

Most cars of today are indeed "fly by wire". The Bowden cable of years past is becoming history, but we may see it return, although I have had the throttle cable hang before on a car. I think it was in the late 70's which was when cables were just starting to replace linkages. It's DeJaVu all over again!

[Tsavodiner]

The FIRST car to crash at Daytona practice today?

You guessed it--the Toyota!

[Jay]

Feb 4, 2010 21:26:49 GMT -5 Tsavodiner said:

The FIRST car to crash at Daytona practice today?

You guessed it--the Toyota!

Dang... Toyota's gettin' a beatin'...

[gridbug]

Toyota - takes a bashing and keeps on crashing

[Jay]

"Toyota's $2 billion recall hit to keep it in the red

Toyota Motor Corp expects costs and lost sales from its massive safety recall to total $2 billion by the end of March, keeping it in the red for the year despite its strongest profit in six quarters.

The recall of more than 8 million vehicles due to problems with unintended acceleration has wiped $30 billion from Toyota's share value, hurt its reputation and overshadowed what was expected to be an upbeat story of improving earnings.

The world's biggest automaker on Thursday announced that 216,000 cars in Germany, Europe's biggest car market, and 180,000 in the UK were included in the recall to fix an accelerator pedal problem."

.....

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100204/ts_nm/us_toyota_28

[mikeydokey]

Dang... Toyota's gettin' a beatin'...

I'm sure Barrack Hussien Obama mmm mmm mmm, has a plan to bail them out, after all, he capable of all things, great and mighty is he. MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

[el Gusano]

They're non-union. He only owes his union supporters. And he said he owes them BIG!

[mikeydokey]

Only until he and his fellow demonicrats pass their card check legislation. Then He and Nancy and Harry can truly become the allmighty and unstoppable " MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE. "

[Police Moderator]

Congressional committees gearing up for Toyota hearings
Investigators will focus on discrepancies in the automaker's explanation of the sudden-acceleration problem and examine the regulatory role of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Reporting from Los Angeles and Washington - Congressional investigators opening hearings this week on Toyota's sudden-acceleration troubles say they will focus on discrepancies in the automaker's explanation of the problem, the role of regulators who oversee the industry -- and ultimately whether federal safety standards are grossly outdated, given the advanced electronics technology at the heart of modern car-making.

Two House committee hearings, on Wednesday and on Feb. 25, will take place amid the high political pressures that shape Washington investigations. Toyota has major operations in nine states, and says its company and dealership facilities employ 172,000 people -- constituents of more than three dozen House and Senate members.

Toyota says that floor mats and sticking gas pedals are the only causes of sudden unintended acceleration in its vehicles, a problem that has been the subject of more than 2,000 consumer complaints to federal safety regulators.

Investigators and congressional staffers say that, based on a preliminary review of internal company and government documents, Toyota has not adequately addressed suspicions that the problem may lie in defects in the engine's electronic control systems.

Read more: latimes

This'll sure fix things.

[Deleted]

So now Toyota is vehemently denying the problems stem from electronics. I still have my doubts, especially after having heard that some (unnamed) cars that are drive by wire controlling the throttle are actually drive by wireless - meaning no mechanical connection from the foot feed to the throttle - and no wires either. Outrageous. I can't imagine doing that given what I'll call spurious radio emissions. I wish I could cite a reference to where I heard that but can't. Anyone?

[el Gusano]

Considering all the recalls on not only school buses, but also the Big Three that are hardly mentioned, I still think this is just trying to pile on to help out Government Motors.

[Justin Thyme]

There are recalls and then there are bad designs that are going to cause safety concerns. Remember the side saddle fuel tanks on 73-87 GM full sized trucks? The problem Toyota faces is very similar to the one GM faced over the gas tank design and placement in these trucks. The difference being that Toyota may be able to fix this problem with a recall. I am convinced, after seeing an ABC news report on the topic, that Toyota's electronic control system has a bug that will allow the car to accelerate out of control under specific conditions. If these control systems can be updated with just a replacement of ROMs a recall might take care of Toyota's problem. Toyota has to admit this first, though.

[el Gusano]

That's why I'm buying Toyota stock. Prices are down, and if they discover a problem, they'll fix it.

[gridbug]

Feb 24, 2010 23:27:22 GMT -5 el Gusano said:

That's why I'm buying Toyota stock. Prices are down, and if they discover a problem, they'll fix it.

Hear! Hear!

I just find it embarrassing for Toyota that they submitted to Congress. They owe nothing to Congress. Congress does not know anything about making cars, all they do is but car companies. All it proves if you're a Congressperson is that you are able to get elected and good at partisan bickering.

[Deleted]

y