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Post by chrisbrooks on May 25, 2012 16:42:54 GMT -5
Hamilton County is home to many people who practice a multitude of faiths as well as many freethinkers and self-identified atheists. Allowing the openings of these necessary governmental meetings to be dominated from the outset by open prayers by right-wing Christians preachers to their particular (mis)characterization of Jesus Christ creates an needlessly hostile and uncomfortable environment for many of our area residents. If any theocrats disagree with me, try to imagine how you would feel if the Hamilton County Commission opened a meeting with a reading from the Holy Qur'an and bearing witness to Muhammad as Allah's messenger. I know exactly what would happen - the vipers at Abba's House would lose their minds and screech about "Shariah Law" taking over our government, failing to recognize that a creeping right-wing Christian theocracy already has. chactivist.blogspot.com/2012/05/theocracy-hamilton-county-commission.html
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 25, 2012 18:48:48 GMT -5
I and we as a free people will pray ANYTIME and ANYWHERE we damn well feel like it, regardless whether you or any other bastard in wisconsin likes it or not.
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Post by mikeydokey on May 25, 2012 18:54:16 GMT -5
I would feel as though I was in a 3rd world Muslim run country, and that if you were critical of how government meetings were opened with Shariah Prayers under the Sharian Laws you would probably be stoned to death or at least beheaded. I feel so much better living in this great country of ours that was founded on Judeo-Christian principals, and that you remain free to be openly critical of how government meetings are opened, closed, and ran.
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Post by Warkitty on May 25, 2012 19:52:55 GMT -5
Fine, pray. Why do you have to demand everyone else listen to you pray? Why demand everyone else pray with you? That's what I don't understand. Why d'y'all have to shove your faith down everyone else's throat?
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TNBear
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,285
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Post by TNBear on May 25, 2012 20:03:53 GMT -5
That's exactly my question as well. I recall a passage in The Bible to the effect that making a big hairy deal about praying was not cool, and to go to your closet to pray in solitude and not make a nuisance of yourself.
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Post by Half-Tard on May 25, 2012 20:18:16 GMT -5
If you're going to read the bible, try reading the whole damn thing.
"When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get.
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 25, 2012 21:27:58 GMT -5
I love how atheists and agnostics spend ALL their time chasing Christians around the block, complaining how they're "forced" to pray here or there. I've never seen anybody in the County Commission meetings holding a gun to anybody's head, forcing them to pray. The bastards always have the GALL to invoke the very Scriptures they allegedly don't believe in to prove their "point". What a load of steaming crap.
Complain all you like. Write your OWN "Book of the Non-Believer" or whatever you want to call it. I read the other day where non-Caucasians were now leading the birth numbers for the first time in United States history. It remains to be seen what kind of religious training they'll get. I probably won't be here to see the results, so i could care less.
When you become the majority because you've hounded the Christian principles of the founding fathers out of government, HAVE AT IT.
Pray to Zog, or Cthutlu, or whoever the Hell you want to. Or don't pray AT ALL. But, as far as I'm concerned, I'll take a knee anywhere I feel like it. If you don't like it, sue me or shoot me.
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Post by Warkitty on May 25, 2012 21:33:55 GMT -5
Yeah, cuz when exhorted "Let us pray" at a government function it's nothing like being told you have to pray. Love how you go from being soo persecuted over that to worrying about not enough white folk being born.
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 25, 2012 21:40:09 GMT -5
Hey, nobody said you HAD to be part of the "Us".
As for the other, if you can't cry "religious zealot" , always pays to segway over to "racist". Hispanics and African-americans are some of the most religious demographic around; you may find you have a worse time with THEIR hegemony of the 'religion' aspect of government than you had with guilt-ridden causcasians, REAL Christians who turned the other cheek enough to get slapped out of existence.
Good Luck with that "afterlife" thingee; but then, you probably shouldn't worry and probably don't.
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Post by Half-Tard on May 25, 2012 21:44:04 GMT -5
That's your right have at it. The way you carry yourself on this forum, I doubt you've prayed more than once and your bible is really dusty...That or you have a reading comprehension problem.
You talk the talk but you don't walk the walk...again read the whole thing..
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 25, 2012 22:25:54 GMT -5
YOU don't get to tell me "how to be".
Read the post count; people have known "how I am" for a long time, and we have a lot of fun beating on each other over this and many other hyper-sensitive topics.
Wanna be a Christian? Be the kind YOU want to be. You don't have a WAY for me to GET in.
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Post by Half-Tard on May 25, 2012 23:59:54 GMT -5
Just read the whole thing
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 26, 2012 3:03:03 GMT -5
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BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
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Post by BlackFox on May 26, 2012 9:35:19 GMT -5
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Post by LimitedRecourse on May 26, 2012 10:36:10 GMT -5
"Why d'y'all have to shove your faith down everyone else's throat?"
"Just read the whole thing"
Mark 16:15 Matthew 28:19 Acts 1:2 Colossians 1:23
It would seem that YOU might wish to "just read the whole thing."
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TNBear
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,285
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Post by TNBear on May 26, 2012 19:39:40 GMT -5
OK, I will try to use small words here. Nobody wants you to stop praying. The point is that when the many non-Christian residents of this city and county attend a government meeting it is not cool that the prayer they have to listen to ends with something like "in Jesus' name". as if there were no other religion. No one is saying don't pray, no one is asking you to pray to Allah or Krishna or any other of the myriad of perceived deities in this big old world. Just be inclusive not exclusive.
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Post by ssmynkint on May 26, 2012 19:59:19 GMT -5
+1
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Post by Half-Tard on May 26, 2012 20:23:45 GMT -5
++1
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Post by Tsavodiner on May 26, 2012 23:41:48 GMT -5
"For the living know they shall die, but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten-- --their love, hatred, and their envy is now perished, never more do they have a portion of any thing done under the sun". --Ecclesiastes 9:5-6. Thanks for keeping it pithy, my friend.
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Post by LimitedRecourse on May 27, 2012 8:33:27 GMT -5
"...I will try to use small words here."
It worked...aceman & ssmynkint were able to follow your lack of logic.
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Post by ssmynkint on May 27, 2012 11:58:04 GMT -5
Great argument, LR. You're so consistent in practicing what you preach.
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Post by LimitedRecourse on May 28, 2012 16:52:36 GMT -5
"You're so consistent in practicing what you preach."
My consistency has nothing to do with the validity of the statement. If that were how you based your support/agreement with people, you could in no way support President Obama.
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Post by ssmynkint on May 28, 2012 18:53:44 GMT -5
You attack aceman & me gratuitously. So much for you not being mean-spirited and divisive. You make ad hominem statements altho you complain that others do not present arguments. More hypocrisy. (Your good discussion of Zimmerman an exception). Now you whine about an entirely different issue of consistency/inconsistency then the clear reference to YOUR posts. Aside from your attempts to weasel out of having to take personal responsibility for who you are and in what you (may) believe, you rarely offer more then sound and fury.
You signify nothing.
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TNBear
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,285
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Post by TNBear on May 28, 2012 19:32:15 GMT -5
LR, please educate me by pointing where my post lacked logic. Thanks.
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JC
Full Forumite
No Messiah
Posts: 1,919
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Post by JC on May 28, 2012 19:39:55 GMT -5
Absoluteness! That's why Christianity is mentioned in the Constitution repeatedly.
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Post by ssmynkint on May 28, 2012 20:01:30 GMT -5
Amen!!
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osrb
Senior Forumite
Semper Fi
Mostly Harmless
Posts: 3,150
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Post by osrb on May 29, 2012 9:11:32 GMT -5
As soon as I see quantifiable evidence in an invisible sky wizard I may start to believe in one.
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Post by Justin Thyme on May 29, 2012 10:32:22 GMT -5
As soon as I see quantifiable evidence in an invisible sky wizard I may start to believe in one. Yeah, me too.
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Post by gridbug on May 29, 2012 13:26:49 GMT -5
I do not think that many people would have a problem with the prayer if they omitted "we pray in Jesus' name" at the end. Make it inclusive, make it non-denominational, and it would not be offensive or un-American.
As it stands, should we take that prayer as admission that the Commission only represents Christians?
If so, what denominations of Christians do they represent? Will they take Mitt Romney off the HC ballots because he isn't Christian?
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Post by LimitedRecourse on May 29, 2012 14:44:15 GMT -5
"LR, please educate me by pointing where my post lacked logic. Thanks."
--- you infer/assume that any who disagrees with you are stupid (or at least not as smart as you are): illogical.
[Nobody wants you to stop praying.] --- you either didn't read the article about the lawsuit to END ALL PRAYER at HC Commission Meetings or you are purposefully ommitting the crux of the article to try and make a point. Either way: illogical.
[... it is not cool that the prayer they have to listen to ends with something like "in Jesus' name".] --- Basing your conclusions on your opinion: illogical.
[ as if there were no other religion.] --- Again assuming that Christians don't understand that there are other religions OR insisting that Christians not pray as they believe IS asking someone not to pray. Both ways: illogical.
[No one is saying don't pray...] --- See above: illogical.
You're welcome.
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