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Post by Conservator on Aug 2, 2012 18:53:38 GMT -5
Nothing on the gay bashing chicken chain?? You libs usually jump on any opportunity... I take a few months off and this lounge has slipped...
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Post by Warkitty on Aug 2, 2012 18:58:14 GMT -5
What's to say? They've said what they think. Now it's either you want to support them with your business, or you don't.
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Post by ssmynkint on Aug 2, 2012 20:05:47 GMT -5
+1
Free speech! Hooray!
But no chicken for me.
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BlackFox
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 2, 2012 20:09:29 GMT -5
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 2, 2012 20:45:52 GMT -5
Actually, I have. I agree that a large majority of people who identify with Christianity probably do little for feeding the hungry, comforting the sick or clothing the naked but a large number do on a regular basis. I know this because I've been involved with them and I've seen them in action.
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Post by gridbug on Aug 3, 2012 6:46:44 GMT -5
But "you'd never see that many christians lined up..." to help others. Of course there are a few good ones here & there I rather enjoy volunteering to feed the homeless and I'm not even a christian. I think it is less likely that "christians help the poor" and more likely "there are good people that help others" regardless of religion or the lack thereof.
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Post by Conservator on Aug 3, 2012 7:22:24 GMT -5
Straying from the topic a bit, but I'll play "lets share our unfounded, base-less opinions"! Granted, depends where you are, but I'd dare say if you found any group feeding the poor/working a clothing drive/helping someone after a tornado that may have come through - and asked if they were Christian, well over 51% would say yes. And my base-less, unfounded opinion would be closer to 75%!
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Post by Conservator on Aug 3, 2012 7:42:34 GMT -5
What's to say? They've said what they think. Now it's either you want to support them with your business, or you don't. I think it's a bit more complex than that... Ss got it right, it's more about free speech honestly. Yes, it was the topic of gay marriage that brought the topic up, (no relation to Obama being for gay marriage now I'm sure), but what made it headline news is when publicly elected officials & mayors of 3 (or 4) major cities verbally blasted, threatened, and said they are banning a private sector company from their city b/c of their Owner/CEO's religious beliefs. It was then, that the Huckabee's and Santorums came out in support, and the overwhelming customer support that brought on traffic jams around the country for this chicken chain's "appreciation day". So supporting Chick-fil-A or not will ultimately come down to choosing a side b/c of what the media has made it, along with a few mayors... but I think it's kind of sad to think my fellow gay Americans will no longer be able to enjoy the best chicken sandwich in world...
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BlackFox
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 3, 2012 8:14:31 GMT -5
Straying from the topic a bit, but I'll play "lets share our unfounded, base-less opinions"! Granted, depends where you are, but I'd dare say if you found any group feeding the poor/working a clothing drive/helping someone after a tornado that may have come through - and asked if they were Christian, well over 51% would say yes. And my base-less, unfounded opinion would be closer to 75%! Yes, in a country that's about 90% Christian, that's not a stretch.
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BlackFox
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 3, 2012 8:19:04 GMT -5
I think it's a bit more complex than that... Ss got it right, it's more about free speech honestly. Yes, it was the topic of gay marriage that brought the topic up, (no relation to Obama being for gay marriage now I'm sure), but what made it headline news is when publicly elected officials & mayors of 3 (or 4) major cities verbally blasted, threatened, and said they are banning a private sector company from their city b/c of their Owner/CEO's religious beliefs. It was then, that the Huckabee's and Santorums came out in support, and the overwhelming customer support that brought on traffic jams around the country for this chicken chain's "appreciation day". So supporting Chick-fil-A or not will ultimately come down to choosing a side b/c of what the media has made it, along with a few mayors... but I think it's kind of sad to think my fellow gay Americans will no longer be able to enjoy the best chicken sandwich in world... I agree completely that those mayors are idiots. If they think the restaurant won't be welcome, then why not hurt them even more by letting them open, and when they don't have any customers, they would have to close. This is not a liberal/ conservative thing. I don't know anyone on either side that agrees with what those mayors did.
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Post by gridbug on Aug 3, 2012 11:05:31 GMT -5
I was simply replying to Justin and pointing out that he is hardly a typical christian The Chick-Fil-Aers come from the evangelical/fundamental side, those of them that feel threatened that others are allowed to believe differently from themselves.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 3, 2012 11:34:39 GMT -5
I was simply replying to Justin and pointing out that he is hardly a typical christian The Chick-Fil-Aers come from the evangelical/fundamental side, those of them that feel threatened that others are allowed to believe differently from themselves. In my church I am far from being the only one involved in feeding the hungry, comforting the sick or supplying bicycles to the needy. While Dan Cathy did come out in full support of the traditional family and has stated he supports the traditional definition of marriage, has Dan Cathy or any Chick-fil-A spokesperson said anything in opposition to same-sex marriage? Can I donate money and give support to Planned Parenthood without supporting abortion?
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Post by wheels on Aug 3, 2012 12:18:26 GMT -5
man, i'm getting sick of this "controversy."
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Post by Warkitty on Aug 3, 2012 15:21:41 GMT -5
When you say "traditional marriage," do you mean the current definition, or the more traditional arranged marriages still used in many nations today, or do you mean the Morman and biblical tradition of polygamy? Or maybe some other tradition?
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 3, 2012 15:28:57 GMT -5
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Post by professorx on Aug 3, 2012 15:32:27 GMT -5
Google image results for "Christian Food Bank" 35,600,000 results "Christian Homeless Shelter" 2,320,000 You're only response is a borrowed photo. Pithy as it may be, it is factually incorrect. It must suck to have to rely on Fark, Reddit, and the Daily Kos for your facts... I think that Chick-Fil-A has received a lot of support because both sides of the political spectrum hate the way the man's opinion has been twisted in an attempt to block his businesses in Boston, Chicago, etc. I had to pass a CFA and there were plenty of people in line that had Obama stickers... He has not said "we refuse service to gays", we refuse to hire gays, or we discriminate in any way... He only gave his opinion based on his religion. I am not sure why you all need the opinion of a private individual to validate your worldview. When the political pendulum swings back, I will not agree if the right wants to shut down liberal businesses because they do not agree with the politics of the right.
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JC
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Post by JC on Aug 3, 2012 15:37:28 GMT -5
Actually it's quite true.
Have you ever seen hundreds of Christians lined up at the food bank?
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 3, 2012 15:42:06 GMT -5
When you say "traditional marriage," do you mean the current definition, or the more traditional arranged marriages still used in many nations today, or do you mean the Morman and biblical tradition of polygamy? Or maybe some other tradition? When I say "traditional marriage" I'm saying it from my context as an American so to me it would mean an Ozzie and Harriet or Ward and June Cleaver style of marriage; a happily married couple that has disagreements but who do not carry out a battle over those disagreements and who provide a loving and nurturing home for their children. But that's focusing on what he said, I'd rather focus on what he didn't say. He didn't say he was opposed to gay marriage. I would suggest to you that one can be supportive of one without being in opposition to the other. Ambivalence is not opposition.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 3, 2012 15:54:51 GMT -5
Good thing; the rubber d*ck industry DEPENDS on it!
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BlackFox
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 3, 2012 17:14:21 GMT -5
Google image results for "Christian Food Bank" 35,600,000 results "Christian Homeless Shelter" 2,320,000 You're only response is a borrowed photo. Pithy as it may be, it is factually incorrect. It must suck to have to rely on Fark, Reddit, and the Daily Kos for your facts... I think that Chick-Fil-A has received a lot of support because both sides of the political spectrum hate the way the man's opinion has been twisted in an attempt to block his businesses in Boston, Chicago, etc. I had to pass a CFA and there were plenty of people in line that had Obama stickers... He has not said "we refuse service to gays", we refuse to hire gays, or we discriminate in any way... He only gave his opinion based on his religion. I am notebook sure why you all need the opinion of a private individual to validate your worldview. When the political pendulum swings back, I will not agree if the right wants to shut down liberal businesses because they do not agree with the politics of the right. I never claimed the photo was mine. It was posted on Facebook by a friend of mine, and I saved it to Photobucket to post it here simply because another friend of mine started this thread and basically asked for it or something like it. As far as the rest of your post, how about reading the thread ?
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ozzy87
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Post by ozzy87 on Aug 3, 2012 18:48:03 GMT -5
Actually, it has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech, but Cathy lying through his teeth (a big no-no according to the Big 10) about leaving marriage equality to politicians, when CFA's charity gave $1.9 MILLION to anti-gay rights organizations in 2010 alone. Besides giving over $3 million from 2003 to '09. " He just supports traditional marriage and is being persecuted." Bullsh*t. Actions speak louder than words. Some of the groups his company gave money to not only want to ban civil marriage equality, but also want to rescind all antidiscirimination laws enacted protecting gays and lesbians from discrimination at their workplace and housing. Some have the stated they are working on getting Lawrence V. Texas overturned and re-criminalize homosexual acts. And some have stated they would like to have homosexuality re-listed as a mental illness and force "reorientation" therapy and if it doesn't work, they're imprisoned. That is some of groups his money has supported. Another disconnect : if you don't like the mayors stand on CFA, then what's your opinion of small towns and cities blocking WalMart and other big box stores from locating in their areas? Different reasons, same result. Massachusetts recognizes marriage equality and Illinois has civil unions. I see a bunch of hypocrites rallying around a lousy chicken fast food joint (Jenkins Buffet in East Ridge and Zaxby's chicken makes CFA hang their head in shame), but I don't see any of them crying crocodile tears and blowing bulls**t indignation about the boycott and protests in front of, and believe it or not, hiring a small plane to tow anti-gay banners over Walt Disney World during Gay Day. No howling like a banshee over the boycott of J.C. Penny over hiring Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 3, 2012 19:29:06 GMT -5
Could you repeat the question if there WAS one?
Are you implying current or prospective employees would LIE to get a job only to disrupt the internal workings of an organization?
Do you believe anybody who supports CF should take a VOW not to shop at JCP?
Glad you're not competing at the Olympics archery event, 'cause you've got arrows flying all OVER the place!
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 3, 2012 19:29:50 GMT -5
And yes, Jenkins Buffet SUCKS. Maybe THEY should support GLBT!
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ozzy87
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Post by ozzy87 on Aug 3, 2012 19:47:29 GMT -5
It's the freaking HYPOCRACY. No one scratches their a$$ when talibangicals boycott companies for standing up and supporting gay rights, but let us qu**rs get national attention for boycotting a company that ACTIVELY supports hate groups and watch the sh*t hit the fan.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 3, 2012 19:50:49 GMT -5
Are any of the groups he gave money to in existence only to fight gay rights? The closest one I've found to meeting that is Exodus International and from what I can tell they aren't attempting to "cure" anyone that doesn't want to be "cured."
I'm sure Truett and Dan Cathy disapprove of same sex marriage but disapproval isn't active opposition. I may disagree with their ideas but I don't see them as haters. They have done a great amount of good and I really have to weigh that good against this current controversy before I'm willing to condemn the Cathy's and boycott their stores.
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ozzy87
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Post by ozzy87 on Aug 3, 2012 20:20:01 GMT -5
Justin, here's a link to where the money went. Not all of the donations went to extremist groups, but several high ranking one are listed. Go to some of the links and websites and Facebook pages and check them out. Especially the Family Reseach Council. They hosted a "Pro marriage" rally last year in New York before NY legalized marriage equality and a "minister" called for the death penalty for homosexuals. And a lot of them cheered! equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001
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ozzy87
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Post by ozzy87 on Aug 3, 2012 20:38:25 GMT -5
Granted, he might have done a lot of good in the community. And I defend this right to believe whatever he wants, but it really pi$$es me off when people try to make him a martyr for being called out on supporting organizations that have stated in the past I'm not worth the spit to be spit on. If he wants to believe I'm going straight to hell, fine. Have at it. No skin off my nose. But when he donates money to groups that directly want to deny me rights as a citizen, and will affect my life every day, then I have a problem and the right to diagree vocally and financially.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 3, 2012 20:47:29 GMT -5
Justin, here's a link to where the money went. Not all of the donations went to extremist groups, but several high ranking one are listed. Go to some of the links and websites and Facebook pages and check them out. Especially the Family Reseach Council. They hosted a "Pro marriage" rally last year in New York before NY legalized marriage equality and a "minister" called for the death penalty for homosexuals. And a lot of them cheered! equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001Ya know, even using the documentation of an extremely biased source I'm failing to find anything I would consider anti-gay about the groups that Winshape gave to. They absolutely aren't "pro-gay" but not being for does not always equate to being against. The rally you are saying they hosted was actually just catered by the local NY franchisee. And I have checked out the FRC. Yes, the FRC does lobby against gay marriage. The FRC also sponsors marriage enrichment seminars, which is their actual reason for existence. The Cathys along with Winshape are not pro-same-sex marriage but not promoting something is not the same as actively opposing it. The only reason they are in the news about this is because someone saw it as a good way to put same-sex marriage in front of everyone. It's been blown out of proportion for the sake of publicity. I support repealing laws preventing the government from recognizing same-sex marriage. I think government should not be involved in marriage in the first place. I'm sure Dan Cathy and I disagree on the matter. I still respect him and his father for what they have done in regards to scholarships and other charities. So on same-sex marriage I'll agree to disagree with him.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 3, 2012 20:48:04 GMT -5
In other words, it's okay to have a belief that's different from yours as long as you don't DO anything about it, right?
Dream On. Or, Dream "Oz", if it makes you feel any better.
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ozzy87
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Post by ozzy87 on Aug 3, 2012 21:10:29 GMT -5
I'm not the one trying to force my religious beliefs on anyone through the law. And before anyone tries to say I'm trying to force my opinions the same way, there are several main stream churches including some Church Of Christ and the Episcopalian Church along with the Unitarian Church that perform holy matrimony ceremonies to gay and lesbian couples. So I'm being denied MY 1st Amendment rights. Name one nonreligious reason that can be used in a secular court of law to deny marriage equality. No slippery slope syndrome such as : marriage equality will lead to marriage with an animal (when Bessie-The-Cow can sign a legal document, call Ripley's Believe It Or Not), an immediate family member ( legal next of kin status already established), or a child (legal age of consent already established). Polygamy is a separate issue. If polygamists want to spend the time, effort, and money to challenge the laws against polygamy, that is their right under the Constitution. Being gay is a choice: irrelevant to the issue. Someones chosen religious beliefs have no more validity under the Constitution than my (supposedly) chosen orientation or choice in my partner. Forcing churches to marry gay and lesbian couples : the separation of church and state works on both sides of this issue. As far as I know no one has successfully sued the Catholic church to force them to marry divorced couples or non-Catholics. "You can marry someone of the opposite sex." : discriminates on the basis of one of the couples gender (illegal). So, banning marriage equality goes against the First and Fourteenth Amendments, the Full Faith And Credibility Clause, and federal laws against discrimination based on gender.
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