frayne
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Post by frayne on Dec 22, 2012 15:52:58 GMT -5
How about a surcharge tax on every firearm transaction for starters to get the program off the ground ?
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Dec 22, 2012 16:01:32 GMT -5
I just have to think that in this imperfect world that the more firearms there are in homes, the more people will make mistakes and leave the weapon where a two year old can find it and kill himself. Not to mention the people who will think their firearm is unloaded and accidentally shoot someone, like the guy who shot his son while climbing into a pickup a week or so back. Then there was the boy who wanted to scare his 11 year old sister and killed her instead, and the three year old girl who found a family members handgun and killed herself.
It is just mathematics, more guns more deaths, purposeful or accidental. More weapons do not truely equal more security for all.
Now I by no means want to take all guns away from everyone. I just feel there is room for compromise between the absolutist positions. And the first step should be to shut down the godforsaken "gun shows" where anyone with money or other guns to trade can procure weapns.
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 22, 2012 16:19:10 GMT -5
Accidents happen. They're rare, though. So rare that the CDC does not count firearm "accidents". They only count total deaths and injuries. I posted the numbers earlier and did the math on it. I came up with a %0.00885 chance of of being killed by a firearm. My math is probably off so I welcome anyone to calculate it themselves. How about a surcharge tax on every firearm transaction for starters to get the program off the ground ? How about a tax on everything you say to pay the cost to fight child porn?
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 22, 2012 16:28:33 GMT -5
This guy did the math on mass-shooting deaths vs. shower deaths, circumcisions, and lightening. Course, a neat looking pecker is no where as scary as a gun, so no one cares about that. [TFP... yeah, I know] _______________________ www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/dec/21/drews-views-chattanooga-free-press-editorial/?opinionfreepressOnly 88 people died in mass shootings in America this year -- and those numbers come courtesy of The Nation, one of America's most antigun publications. Yes, it's heartbreaking that 88 people died. But that's out of 315 million Americans. That means one in every 3.6 million Americans died in a mass shooting this year -- about the same portion as the number of Americans that died each year from lightning strikes. Four times more Americans die in shower and bathtub accidents every year than die in mass shootings, according to the National Safety Council. A 2010 study published in the academic journal Thymos revealed that 117 baby boys die every year in the U.S. from circumcision complications.
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frayne
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Post by frayne on Dec 22, 2012 17:16:59 GMT -5
Accidents happen. They're rare, though. So rare that the CDC does not count firearm "accidents". They only count total deaths and injuries. I posted the numbers earlier and did the math on it. I came up with a %0.00885 chance of of being killed by a firearm. My math is probably off so I welcome anyone to calculate it themselves. How about a surcharge tax on every firearm transaction for starters to get the program off the ground ? How about a tax on everything you say to pay the cost to fight child porn? Well the NRA did offer the suggestion as a solution to the problem, the question is, how to pay for it ? Why should Joe Taxpayer shoulder the additional cost of additional RSOs to protect the schools ? OK, I pay tax for every gallon of gas I buy to drive my car, how about a tax on ammo to pay for the RSOs ?
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 22, 2012 18:16:00 GMT -5
How about a tax on your free speech to pay for fighting child porn?
This shooting was not the NRA's fault. It was not my gun's fault. It was not my ammo's fault. It is the fault of a deranged psycho. We must all pay to correct this problem.
The NRA is only offering this program as a "compromise" to keep D.C. out of our Second Amendment.
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frayne
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Post by frayne on Dec 22, 2012 18:46:13 GMT -5
The sad fact is the 2nd amendment is outdated, outmoded and irrelevant. If you think your firearms are ever going to stop tyrannical government from unjust taxation or to enable anyone to raise a local militia for the intent of protecting your property or rights from a federalist type government, I would say you will be sadly disappointed. An AR-15 against an A-10 isn't much of a contest. In this day and age of being a supposedly civilized society we need to rain in arms sales and possession, not as being a right but a privilege.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Dec 22, 2012 19:08:14 GMT -5
The sad fact is the 2nd amendment is outdated, outmoded and irrelevant. If you think your firearms are ever going to stop tyrannical government from unjust taxation or to enable anyone to raise a local militia for the intent of protecting your property or rights from a federalist type government, I would say you will be sadly disappointed. An AR-15 against an A-10 isn't much of a contest. In this day and age of being a supposedly civilized society we need to rain in arms sales and possession, not as being a right but a privilege. At the time of the Revolution, Britain stood as the mightiest Empire the world had seen since Rome. They had defeated the Spanish Armada and subjugated Portugal, whose seafaring prowess was known throughout the Mediterranean and beyond. The Colonists had no chance, NO chance, against her might. But, through sheer doggedness, determination, and courage against CERTAIN death, as was suffered by Patriots as Nathan Hale, the first Americans won their freedom through shed blood, both theirs and their enemy's. How DARE you, Sir, contend the might of this or ANY Government supplant that sacrifice or our forefathers?
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 22, 2012 19:10:23 GMT -5
A few thoughts on that.
Small arms are kicking our ass in the 'Stans and Iraq. Small arms are partly the reason Vietnam ended the way it did. The US has given countless small arms out throughout history to help small armies defeat larger and heavier armed forces. Heavy artillery/big weapons are only mainly used to take out big targets or mass targets. They still have to go in on foot to take out the guys with AKs and IEDs.
Who says that our military members would follow orders to kill Americans?
It isn't JUST about having the means to resist tyranny. It is the threat that keep tyranny away**, and it is also about self defense, sport, collection and national security. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" -- Isoroku Yamamoto, Fleet Admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy - World War II.
** "The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him". -- Sun Tzu
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frayne
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Post by frayne on Dec 22, 2012 19:35:41 GMT -5
No disrespect whatsoever to our founding fathers as God knows they were wise beyond their years. As far as small arms kicking our ass in Nam, or the Stans, not true. What kicks our ass is the political will or lack thereof to go all out and win, instead we want a half assed political solution coupled with trying to push our style of democracy on a civilization that is neither ready for nor wants it. The Brits lacked the will as well during the revolutionary war. Hence the home team wins in most cases.
All that said, I would venture to guess had the founding fathers had any idea of the carnage the 2nd amendment has caused on the citizenry of this great country, they may have made just a few changes, like making ownership a privilege, not a right.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Dec 22, 2012 21:14:33 GMT -5
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Dec 22, 2012 22:00:12 GMT -5
OK. Who feels gun shows should continue and offer firearms to any and all, and who feels this might not be such a great idea?
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 22, 2012 22:48:13 GMT -5
There is no "gun show loophole". It's a myth much like the "assault weapon specs" that gun grabbers use to scare the populous with.
There are private sales and licensed dealers at shows. The licensed dealers must follow all FFL laws/regs, including background checks. They are essentially operating their business out of a rented space. The only guns sold that do not come with background checks come from private sellers. The only way to stop that is to outlaw all private sales. With 350 million guns in this country, they would have an easier time outlawing the private sales of sex.
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Dec 23, 2012 5:21:31 GMT -5
Well hell then, give 'em away on street corners complete wih 30+ round magazines. By the way, the private sale of sex is illegal, especially near schools if you hadn't heard.
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Post by Warkitty on Dec 23, 2012 7:38:45 GMT -5
Outlaw private sales? Yeah, that'll happen (NOT).
Private sales are nothing more that when someone like me says "hmmm, I have this handgun, but I've developed a muscle twitch in my hand that makes me unable to hold it steady to hit my target so I really have no need to keep it now. My friend X however will pay me $XX for it."
If you think making that illegal would actually work, you're smoking crack. The only way to even consider prosecuting such is to start registering gun ownership, and THAT ain't gonna happen either. I can tell you right now *I* would refuse to admit or register, and I'm pretty basically law abiding.
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Post by Half-Tard on Dec 23, 2012 11:07:33 GMT -5
Didn't that asshole that killed Sgt. Chapin trade his stolen guns at a Chattanooga gun show for the guns he used to murder that Man? That was what was reported. Gotta call bunk on that take off your gun metal blue shade glassses once in a while.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Dec 23, 2012 11:18:00 GMT -5
Semantics my friend, are you going to own a car and not drive it ? I have known of several trucks that were bought for use only on private property. But you are missing the point. Gun ownership is a right just as car ownership is. It is only when either is used in public that regulations should kick in. Driving as well as going armed is a privilege, not ownership or use on private property.
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frayne
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Post by frayne on Dec 23, 2012 11:52:17 GMT -5
Semantics my friend, are you going to own a car and not drive it ? I have known of several trucks that were bought for use only on private property. But you are missing the point. Gun ownership is a right just as car ownership is. It is only when either is used in public that regulations should kick in. Driving as well as going armed is a privilege, not ownership or use on private property. I understand your point and I also understand that 99% of personal vehicles are bought for purpose driving on public roads and at some point in their life cycle they may be resigned to operating only on the back forty. My point is the second amendment is either flawed or has been bastardized in that every Tom, Dick or Harry has a right to own and operate a firearm. Firearm possession and operation should not be a right but a privilege, the same as driving, along with the requisite requirements; training, licensing, picture ID, insurance, registration, etc. Not everyone who wants to drive is qualified to receive a license for various reasons, from physical, mental, addiction, etc. Similar standards should be required for firearm possession and use. I know not a popular view or opinion but just the way I feel.
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Post by mikeydokey on Dec 23, 2012 14:44:58 GMT -5
Getting back to whether we should hire armed SRO's for our schools and if the government can afford to pay them. No. the government would rather pay 8 or 9 TSA agents to stand around every metal detector at every airport in the good ole USA and another 8 to 9 TSA agents to set around and check out our ball sacks, hoo hahs, and hooters at the god foresaken x-ray machines.
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Post by Half-Tard on Dec 23, 2012 15:46:57 GMT -5
Isn't that where you work the ball sack dept.
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 23, 2012 16:17:02 GMT -5
Well hell then, give 'em away on street corners complete wih 30+ round magazines. By the way, the private sale of sex is illegal, especially near schools if you hadn't heard. That was the point. Trying to regulate private sales of anything is impossible. As WK said, the only way they could even think about doing that is to require registration. And also like WK, I would not comply with orders to register my weapons. Moot point anyway. The SCOTUS ruled that federal registration is unconstitutional in the DC vs. Heller case. Simply not going to happen without changing the Constitution.... and that ain't gonna happen without passing both houses and being approved by majority of the states.
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JC
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Post by JC on Dec 23, 2012 16:19:59 GMT -5
Didn't that asshole that killed Sgt. Chapin trade his stolen guns at a Chattanooga gun show for the guns he used to murder that Man? That was what was reported. Gotta call bunk on that take off your gun metal blue shade glassses once in a while. He and his family already had guns. He traded a few stolen guns for an AR at a gun show. IIRC, I don't think the gun used to kill the Sgt. came from the gun show --I could be wrong on that.... going from memory here. Point here, though, is that he already had several guns that were stolen. No amount of laws will stop criminals from steeling weapons and using those weapons in additional crimes.
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elf
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Post by elf on Aug 20, 2013 18:55:21 GMT -5
There has been twice in my life that I have pointed a weapon at someone. Once, I person was trying to break in my back door. I picked up the rifle and said "Come on". He left. The second time, someone in front of me truck broke down. The light turned green and the person in back of me blew his horn. The person in front pulled on my door. I picked up my pistol and pointed it. He held up his hands and walked away I rolled down my window and stated that it was the person in back that honked. He then said, "Ma'am, I'm sorry. I then asked if I could help. He said, "Please call my wife." Funny what you do in your life. But, I will not, ever give up my fire arms.
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