100s Attend Mayor Elect's Public Safety Forum

[Police Moderator]

Hundreds attend mayor-elect Berke's Highland Park forum
by Beth Burger
by Kevin Hardy

People crowded into a gymnasium Thursday night came hoping that things will change.

Maybe there will be less blood shed. Each day it seems like the bullets continue to fly.

On Thursday night, Mayor-elect Andy Berke hosted a public safety panel followed by small break-out sessions to hear from a couple hundred residents.

"We're using this information and incorporating it during this transition period to be ready to govern on Day 1," he said.

Read more: times free press

"Hoping things will change?"

I don't know who said it, but, "You can hope in one hand and sh** in the other, and see which one fills first."

And, in the words of the great sage Granny Hawkins..... "They're goin' to heel and hide you to a barn door. You know what I say? "

"I say that big talk's worth doodly-squat."

"(Now. Them poultices be laced with feathermoss and mustard root. Mind you drop water on 'em occasional and keep 'em damp.)"

[Police Moderator]

Talked to death
by David Cook

It looked so good.

Hundreds — probably six times the number at Mayor Ron Littlefield's final State of the City speech — came to Andy Berke's crime forum Thursday night at Tennessee Temple University.

Heads of foundations, next to officers with badges and guns. Fathers with young kids, older folks resting on the bleachers (all the folding chairs were taken), mothers patting infants.

Many, many folks who live nearby. Nonprofit leaders who don't. Community activists. A few gang-bangers.

It was Obama-esque in its youth: most of Berke's volunteers and staffers -- in pressed shirts or blue "Renew Chattanooga" T-shirts -- looked under 35.

Read more: times free press

Mr. Cook is much more eloquent than me, and less profane..... But, I pretty much summed up, in 17 words¹, what he said.


¹"You can hope in one hand and sh** in the other, and see which one fills first."

[Deleted]

“Mr. Cook is much more eloquent than me, and less profane..... But, I pretty much summed up, in 17 words1, what he said.”

I agree.

[Half-Tard]

In that one meeting Mayor Berke addressed the issue more than the last 3 mayors put together. At least he's acting like he cares. We the other three you know they didn't care. One of those former Mayors just used Nooga as a stepping stone. But until you can fix the family unit problems in these blighted areas it will not change. I'd say if you want change get a Uhaul Truck load your belongings and get the f*ck out of Dodge.

[Justin Thyme]

But until you can fix the family unit problems in these blighted areas it will not change.

Perhaps the first step in fixing the family unit problems in these blighted areas is to correct the problem causing the blight. Bring in industry that will create jobs for the people living there, fix the broken schools in the area so kids don't feel like they are getting nothing from them and stop letting violent offenders back out on the street while they are still a threat to society.

[Police Moderator]

In that one meeting Mayor Berke addressed the issue more than the last 3 mayors put together.

And he's accomplished just as much as the last 3 mayors, put together.

[Police Moderator]

I've stated before that we cannot arrest our way out of this problem, but I am re-thinking that position. I've heard Chief Dodd and Sheriff Hammond state this over and over. I sincerely respect Chief Dodd, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with him on this issue.

There have been several insidious, and thought to be insurmountable, crime problems in which we have, indeed, arrested our way out of a problem at hand.

KKK?

• Infiltration by the Feds, prosecution on Civil Rights Violations and U.S.C. § 1983 cases and these assholes are currently a flaccid, ineffective (From their point of view) shadow of their once powerful force for evil. These idiots had infiltrated pretty much every aspect of society (North and South) for nearly a century. They bombed children, tortured, shot, stabbed, raped and murdered their way across society with seeming impunity. They invented the 'drive-by' shooting (See the story of Medgar Wiley Evers.)
  
  Local businessmen, law enforcement (From Sheriffs/Chiefs to the rank-and-file), politicians and other prominent men were either active in the KKK, or ignored their murderous behavior (Both of these are equally evil, in my book.)
  
  Mississippi, et al, was Burning, indeed.
  
  Regular taxpayers, citizens and property owners got sick of it and demanded someone take some action and actually do 'something' about the problem.
  
  Took a while, took plenty of tax dollars, real leaders and a few courageous people, who refused to just 'hope', and who took active, effective steps to resolve the problem. They hopped instead of hoped.
  
  Investigated, arrested, justly prosecuted and imprisoned, forever, many of them.
  
  Problem solved.

The Mafia?

• Infiltration by the Feds, prosecution for Conspiracy and U.S.C. §§ 1961-1968 RICO Violations. A minority of ethnic terrorists controlled local, state and parts of the federal government. They created empires and pretty much built Las Vegas, New York City and Chicago. They controlled all crime (Loan sharks, protection, prostitution, illegal booze and finally, illegal drugs.) They ran Labor (Unions) and Management (Tammany Hall) in most of America's largest cities for nearly a century.
  
  Regular taxpayers, citizens and property owners got sick of it and demanded someone take some action and actually do 'something' about the problem.
  
  Took a while, took plenty of tax dollars, real leaders and a few courageous people, who refused to just 'hope', and who took active, effective steps to resolve the problem.
  
  Investigated, arrested, justly prosecuted and imprisoned, forever, many of them.
  
  Problem solved.

NYPD and LAPD? (Used as an generalized examples of LE Agencies run amok)

• Infiltration by the Feds, prosecution on Civil Rights Violations and U.S.C. § 1983 cases. Serpico and Durk, the Knapp Commission and exposure by the media highlighted the problem.
  
  The Knapp Commission found that to resolve police abuse, certain steps needed to be taken and enforced:
  
  (1) Commanders should be held accountable for their subordinates' actions.
  (2) Commanders should file periodic reports on key aspects that would breed corruption.
  (3) Field offices of the Internal Affairs division should be created at all precincts.
  (4) Undercover informants should be placed in all precincts.
  (5) Improve screening and selection methods and standards.
  (6) A change in police attitudes.
  
  Notice that most of those steps involved demanding accountability from LE administrators. Truly lead? ... The rest of the agency will follow. Did they mention Civilian Review Boards as the end all, be all of solving the exception of police abuse?
  
  Took a while, took plenty of tax dollars, real leaders and a few courageous people, who refused to just 'hope', and who took active, effective steps to resolve the problem.
  
  Investigated, arrested, justly prosecuted and imprisoned, forever, many of them.
  
  Problem being solved.

So we gonna 'hope' in one hand, and defecate in the other? Either way, we gotta a handful of 'Hope', a handful of dung and nothing to show for it, but a costly COMMITTEE, or two. And some art to dress it all up.

Me? I say we empty both of our hands of useless posturing, fine oratory and the associated BS, from our chosen leaders, we've evidently come to accept, and put both our hands to effective use.

The Good Lord said, "Turn the other cheek." But, He only gave us four cheeks. I, for one, have run out of cheeks.

Or bow down to the criminals, to the 'thugs', to the Defense lobby, to the Sentencing Commissions, to the prosecutors who fail to prosecute the damn law, to the politicians who'd rather spend more on touchy-feely art than iron bars and to the judges who make important-ass judicial decisions based on the anticipated popularity of their decisions weighed by the ends, trying to justify the means?

Or, we can do like Mademoiselle Duke, acemen, et al, and just ineffectively whine cause we got sand in our collective cat.

Contribute, act or....

Until we decide to do the right thing (That all the aforementioned, including the rest of us, know is the right thing) it'll be more of the same old sh*t...

Problem solved. Or, not. (And you can quote me on that.)

Edited 'cause my grammar sucks.

[udontknowme]

they have to want the jobs and to work for that to help. The legislature isn't going to change sentencing guidelines because that would cost more money to keep these idiots locked up...and the schools do not have the money to fix the things that need fixing at schools. One thing, that only the community can fix, via a change in the attitude of parents and the kids who go to school only to socialize, is the attitudes of these kids...but I fear it is way beyond that. It's broke and we are circling the bowl...sad to say, but it is sooooooooooo true

Mar 22, 2013 12:16:56 GMT -5 Justin Thyme said:

But until you can fix the family unit problems in these blighted areas it will not change.

Perhaps the first step in fixing the family unit problems in these blighted areas is to correct the problem causing the blight. Bring in industry that will create jobs for the people living there, fix the broken schools in the area so kids don't feel like they are getting nothing from them and stop letting violent offenders back out on the street while they are still a threat to society.

[Police Moderator]

But until you can fix the family unit problems in these blighted areas it will not change.

Why is it, JiT, society's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, any government's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, the polices' job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, that it is any Judge's/Jury's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, that it is any taxpayer funded COMMITTEE's/TASKFORCE's job to fix a family?

You don't think there are 'family' problems in Hixson, North Chattanooga, Lookout Mountain (TN and GA), or at Baylor, McCallie, CCS or GPS? We gotta fix their fu**ed up sh*t, too?

The onus is on the family, itself, to fix their own problems, before it affects the rest of us.

They don't?

The rest of us will surely fix it for them. (In a perfect world, anyway.)

I got in this job to police, not parent¹.

¹I gotta enough of that stuff, on my own.

[pepper]

Arresting our way out of it would work just great if the court system actually backed the arrest and put the thugs in jail long enough to really make a difference. Unfortunately as you can see by the rash of shooting suspects and victims this year each with a long track record of being charged only to be set back out onto the streets to continue their thugging ways that its just not going to happen!

Yep wish in one hand and shit in the other!

[Justin Thyme]

Why is it, JiT, society's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, any government's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, the polices' job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, that it is any Judge's/Jury's job to fix a family? Why is it, JiT, that it is any taxpayer funded COMMITTEE's/TASKFORCE's job to fix a family?

Why? Because when the family doesn't fix itself the problem slops itself all over the rest of us. So we can walk around with slop all over us and claim it's the family's problem or we can clean ourselves up and leave the family in their slop to slop back on us again or we can clean ourselves up, the family up and show them how to stay out of the slop.

Look, there is the way things ought to be and there is the way things are. I'm all for individual responsibility and I agree that it ought not be our job of cleaning the slop off of irresponsible families but my agreeing isn't going to keep their slop off of me. At some point I have to understand that I am my brother's keeper and work to solve the problem, not enable it, in order to get things to where they are the way they ought to be.

[Police Moderator]

At some point I have to understand that I am my brother's keeper and work to solve the problem, not enable it, in order to get things to where they are the way they ought to be.

I am proffering that way we keep our brothers (and sisters), who've chosen to be violent, is keep them away from the rest of us, forever, after they've been duly convicted of being a 'problem.'

I think we need to initiate a One Strike, Yer Out, program.

Why do we need to give evil two more chances to prove, at the risk of our lives and property, they are not evil?

[pepper]

I think that after one violent crime as an adult involving a gun that all juvenile records should be released to allow for enhanced sentencing on the little thugs!

[Half-Tard]

I think the parents of the offenders need to be charged if their son/daughter commits a violent crime or hell any crime for that matter. Unless they can show proof of counseling they've obtained or even filing incorrigible charges against juvenile children. Than I say charge the parents might wake the kids up and or other parents in the same boat.

Please give away condoms, birth control, morning after pills away to High School kids let's try to stop babies from having babies, even free no questions asked trips to Atlanta. Put birth Control in the water in the projects or something.

[Justin Thyme]

Mar 23, 2013 18:04:22 GMT -5 Police Moderator said:

At some point I have to understand that I am my brother's keeper and work to solve the problem, not enable it, in order to get things to where they are the way they ought to be.

I am proffering that way we keep our brothers (and sisters), who've chosen to be violent, is keep them away from the rest of us, forever, after they've been duly convicted of being a 'problem.'

I think we need to initiate a One Strike, Yer Out, program.

I have no problem with taking a threat to society out of society. I think if we wait to act until someone becomes a threat that we have failed somewhere. And when I say "we" I'm saying "you and I" and not some government entity.

[Police Moderator]

I think if we wait to act until someone becomes a threat that we have failed somewhere.

So what algorithm do we use to determine someone is a threat before they actually become more than just threatening?

[Justin Thyme]

Mar 25, 2013 2:35:10 GMT -5 Police Moderator said:

I think if we wait to act until someone becomes a threat that we have failed somewhere.

So what algorithm do we use to determine someone is a threat before they actually become more than just threatening?

Maybe assume anyone that is mistreated or overly catered to could potentially become a threat to society. The idea is to quit creating the monsters, not identify monsters that are on the verge of acting.

[JC]

When has the "fix their families first" theory ever worked, jit?

There are plenty of work-ready jobs in those areas now. I worked at one that was two blocks away from the projects on 4th for about 5 years myself.
These animals do not want to work.

"We", as in tax payers, have put countless dollars into those communities and schools. How much did Chattanooga spend to build the new Howard school?

There is only two proven methods to fix the problem; prison and death.

[Half-Tard]

(There is only two proven methods to fix the problem; prison and death.)

Drones.

[JC]

"Drones. "

See number 2

[Police Moderator]

After re-reading some of the posts, I have found a few more questions.....

• Has anyone ever experienced, found or even heard of a 'functional' family, in real life?
  
• I am aware of quite a few people, of all races, sexes and religions, who were born, through no fault of their own: 'disadvantaged', into a piss poor school district, were dirt poor, had a single parent (And the other was a drunk, addict or otherwise scum) and yet they ended up being quite successful taxpayers, who act right. What algorithm should we use to pick these folks out?
  
• Herod the Great, the Roman appointed King of the Jews, had pretty effective means of wiping out a perceived threat to him before it became an actual threat to him. How do we identify those who are creating 'monsters' and the subsequently created 'monsters' under the Constitution?
  
• So how do we separate out, in advance, the potential 'monsters' from the potential non-monsters?

As WK stated, in her other topic, one simply cannot use ANY societal circumstance to reliably predict which individual is going to be a wolf, or be a sheep, or be a sheep dog. But, if one acts like a wolf and demonstrates, one time, they are going to act like a wolf, separate them from the sheep, permanently. Giving the affirmed wolf a suspended sentence, and demanding he check in with a sheep dog once a month, and then hoping the now free sheep-killing-wolf will just stop killing sheep (By some ivory tower hope-for-the-better premise) is the height of arrogance ignorance ivorytowerness don't have a clue.

(It should be noted the sheep in the ivory tower are already protected from any wolf in the first place. And they've hired their own sheepdogs just 'cause they got money.)

;D

In a perfect world, JiT's solution would definitely, without question, work.

[Police Moderator]

In Chattanooga, some sort of peace from gang violence
by David Cook

The group of gang leaders had just walked out of the dining room -- a stack of pizza boxes on the table, makeshift ashtrays, extra chairs but still not enough for everyone -- and back into the gusty night.

A moment or two passed. About as long as it takes to light a cigarette. Or say a brief prayer.

Near the head of the dining room table, one man -- respected and feared by the younger men who had just left -- looked up and spoke.

"What time is it?" he asked.

7:18.

On Palm Sunday night.

"The truce has begun," he said. "You were a witness."

Read more: times free press

".........(different gangs came at different times)"

So these 'soliders' couldn't even stay in the same room, at the same time?

".........had you changed the background, clothes and setting, it could have been soldiers coming in from battle."

Had you changed the background, clothes and setting it could also have been the New City Fellowship Church's Choir Practice, or the last City Commission meeting, or the CPD's evening shift Fox Team's Sunday Line Up/Roll Call.

".......... The older men spoke with a blend of love and anger. A sternness. Cursing, yet out of concern."

Finally.

"........... one man -- respected and feared by the younger men who had just left."

Imagine if 50, a hundred, or two hundred men, respected and feared in their community, stood up, led the younger generation down the right path and began to fix the problem.............?

One does not necessarily have to be a flesh and blood father to be a father.

[Police Moderator]

Values in the Gutter.......

Source: the onion

[Justin Thyme]

Has anyone ever experienced, found or even heard of a 'functional' family, in real life?

Yeah, there are functional families. I grew up in one, my two sons grew up in one and I see these families among my peers. Functional doesn't mean perfect, functional means the family is working as it should work with the children being properly fed, clothed and guided toward being a responsible adult. Just because there is some occassional yelling doesn't mean the family is dysfunctional. Just because there is only one parent in the home doesn't mean the family is dysfunctional. A dysfunctional family is one in which the children have an irrational perception of normal.

[Police Moderator]

Not to split hairs, JiT, but McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. defines a dysfunctional family as "a family with multiple 'internal'–e.g. sibling rivalries, parent-child– conflicts, domestic violence, mental illness, single parenthood, or 'external'–e.g. alcohol or drug abuse, extramarital affairs, gambling, unemployment—influences that affect the basic needs of the family unit."

[Justin Thyme]

influences that affect the basic needs of the family unit.

Yeah, but above is the key phrase. If those influences are not affecting the basic needs of the family unit (yeah, I know, some of those listed will affect the basic needs) the family is not dysfunctional. Still, there are plenty of families that don't meet any of McGraw-Hill's criteria for dysfunction.

[Police Moderator]

Still, there are plenty of families that don't meet any of McGraw-Hill's criteria for dysfunction.

I'd agree, but there are plenty more who don't, and most of those children turn out to do the right thing by society. Like me.

Hell, I passed the MMPI so 'scientific' definitions or tests, by learned university scholars, or publications, don't carry much water with me, anyway.

The fact remains that it is on the INDIVIDUAL to make his/her own life decisions, despite their environment/education/circumstance, and then accept the responsibility for those decisions.

[Justin Thyme]

The fact remains that it is on the INDIVIDUAL to make his/her own life decisions, despite their environment/education/circumstance, and then accept the responsibility for those decisions.

And the fact also remains that urban areas where the levels of poverty, unemployment and school dropouts are high experience high levels of crime, drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity and violence. You and I can only make our own life choices. The only thing we can do for others is make it a little easier for them to know what the right choices are and make them by working to reduce poverty, unemployment and school dropouts. It is in our best interest to do so.

[Police Moderator]

And the fact also remains that urban areas where the levels of poverty, unemployment and school dropouts are high experience high levels of crime, drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity and violence.

And the fact remains, even further, that in rural areas, where the levels of poverty, unemployment and school dropouts are high..... All seemingly experience high levels of crime, drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity and violence.

Go to pretty much any Native American Reservation, pretty much most of rural Mississippi, Georgia, California, New York, Connecticut, Tennessee, Alaska and Alabama and one will find the same damn thing, JiT.

We gotta unfu** their stuff, too?

All functional families are seemingly experiencing high levels of crime, drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity and violence as much as the dysfunctional families do.

Which, cyclically, brings us right back around to the full circle pointing at personal responsibility.

A concept seemingly lost on most of the voting public and all of the criminals.

[Justin Thyme]

And the fact remains, even further, that in rural areas, where the levels of poverty, unemployment and school dropouts are high..... All seemingly experience high levels of crime, drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity and violence.

That's not exactly accurate. Here's some reading for you.