Up to five shots were fired in the Gunbarrel Road incident in which a youth was shot in the leg on March 31, according to a police report.
On the same night, hundreds of people were at the scene of a disorder at the National Guard Armory on Holtzclaw Avenue, where several people were arrested.
The Gunbarrel Road report says the youth who was shot said the bullet hit him while he was standing in the street in front of La-Z-Boy on Goodwin Road. An officer saw a small hole on the front of the boy's right knee and a hole on the back of his right knee. He was transported to Children's Hospital.
A witness said he was standing on the sidewalk next to La-Z-Boy when he heard two gunshots. He said afterwards he saw a black male with short hair wearing black clothes standing behind a delivery truck in the La-Z-Boy parking lot......
Last Edit: Apr 5, 2007 20:35:12 GMT -5 by marshall
Sounds like maybe we have a choice: - A quick news report in the heat of the moment, based on word-of-mouth and quasi-credible eyewitnesses, which later has to be amended, or -A news report delayed by a day or two so that police can assess the statements and evidence and put together a scenario that more closely reflects what actually happened.
Just MHO, no biases or axes to grind. On the other hand, 5 days does seem a bit much.
Maybe long delays in reporting the "who, what, why, when & where" have more to do with this area's standards of journalism than anything else -- reporters who single source breaking news or depend on press releases shouldn't complain when they wait for spoonfed information, but maybe the public should complain about their lack of legwork ....
We do the best we can with the information we have at the time. Lack of information is not lying. Passing on misinformation in the heat of the moment regarding a dynamic situation is not lying. We don't have your advantage of bitching about things days after all the facts are in. All the facts are not known until trial and even then the facts are disputed.
Does Styles just make up stuff out of thin air when he doesn't know it, just to satisfy his eager listening audience?
No. He is a professional and waits until he has at least a kernel of information (Hopefully, second sourced) before he runs with it. It is the mark of a professional.
I think some of our local news media people (and people like marshall) wish to be spoon fed every story just so they can cut and paste the story, word for word from the press release. Hell, I could do that!
Do our local news people even have sources any more?
I guess we could send every reporter, every LE report on every call for service, in the metro area, every year and let them sift through them for the real stories. 350,000+ reports and supplements. That would kill at least half of the Amazon rain forest just to make the copies for all the news outlets. And require 10-15 people to sort and copy and distribute. 10-15 cops off the street.
Brilliant, marshall, that is what we should do, just so you are "In The Know"!
Say your neighbor is pissed at you (Hard to believe you could piss anybody off, but follow along). He calls the police and reports you are a child molester and just makes up stuff to make it sound better. People actually lie to the police sometimes. The cop files the report outlining the allegations. You are named as the suspect by the neighbor. We immediately release the report to the press as you are demanding.
Everybody has a right to know what what we are doing, right? You pay our salaries, right? We are covering something up, right?
Then your neighbor dials up the news media, anonymously, of course, (Like on this forum, and come to think of it, like you) and tells them what he told the police. He tells them that there is a big cover-up and the cops are obviously protecting a baby raper 'cause they refused to immediately release the "report" that you are, for damn sure, a child molester.
Think they would run with it? Of course they would, front page of the Metro Section, above the fold, and lead story at 6:08 AM on WGOW. The Chattanoogan, News Channels' 3, 9, 11, 12 and even WDEF radio. I post the "story" on the Police Blotter off their websites and post all the links on here, cause I think you are a Monday morning quarterbacking Ivory Tower (Apologies to the esteemed Ivory Tower crowd here, but I am trying to make a point, dammit!) idiot.
Everybody that even recognizes your full name, address, DOB, employer, physical characteristics, etc, would automatically assume you are definitely a child molesting SOB. We would have to post your picture to the media too 'cause we have it on file and not releasing it would be witholding known information which is an obvious sign of a cover-up.
It has to be true cause they saw/read/heard it on the freakin' NEWS, for Gawd's sake!
We are telling the "TRUTH" as we know it, right? Run with it, right?
Or would you rather us wait and investigate the allegations and prove them (hopefully) to be false. Then the COMPLETE report (Probably filed a week or two later, instead of your demanded instantaneously released time frame) would read that your ass-hat neighbor falsely accused you of being a child molester, for no reason, and that after an intense and accurate investigation, the neighbor was arrested for Filing a False Report.
Put the shoe on your foot and see if you still want every police report instantaneously faxed to the media before the ink is dry.
Crash, as much as you would like to pick a fight on this issue, backed by your me-too brigade (Marvell, etc).....
I am not "picking a fight", I am merely responding to your initial post and pointing out the fact that you know not of what you speak.
I'm not taking the bait.
You are not answering the question, either. Do you want the immediate release of all police reports, even before the investigation of the alleged event is completed?
I think many folks are getting tired of hearing about shots fired and fights breaking out in public areas, only to be told "it's just a bunch of kids having a swell time."
You heard about the "shots fired" the very next news cycle and you heard about the fights breaking out in public areas in the very next news cycle. You then heard more facts about each event as the facts came out.
It's really very simple. Tell the truth the first time, and you won't lose so much credibility.
This has happened about 5 times in Chattanooga this year already, and it's only April..
Would you care to share with us the "about 5 times" you have been "lied to" by local LE this year?
I think the LE PIOs have done as great a job, as humanly possible, doing their job.
Your responses were exactly what I expected. I really shouldn't have to do your research for you (especially the King of the Internet), but you asked for it.
Here are five easily retrieved examples (there is of course, no way to know how many others are being concealed).
1. Brainerd High 911 Lie/Fiasco. Perhaps you've heard about this one. Incident was 1/26, misinformation was immediate and prolonged, media (not police) revealed truth 2/5.
2. Howard Students/ Coolidge Park incident. Happened on 3/9, downplayed by officials for days, police report obtained and reported by news media 3/14.
3. Youth fighting at Riverpark. Happened on 3/21, mass denials for two days, media uncovers truth on 3/23.
4. More youth fighting at Riverpark. Happened on 3/24, mass denials and inaccuracies issued for 4 days, conflicting press releases questioned by Chattanoogan.com's John Wilson, revised press release issued 3/28 with new details on gang colors and cell phone evidence.
5. Shots fired near Hamilton Place Skating Rink. Happened on 3/31, few details issued, downplayed by officials, new info of a scary situation finally released on 4/5. On the same night, similar incident, several arrests on Holtzclaw. This incident received very little news coverage at the time.
Much of this info was reported only because of the persistent efforts of a few good reporters in this town.
Again, I refer to my original post. If you want to learn more about these incidents, try Google, or you can watch, read or listen to the news every now and then.
Last Edit: Apr 7, 2007 10:24:05 GMT -5 by marshall
> I really shouldn't have to do your research for you
Au contraire - if you can't back up a statement that you have made, then why should you expect someone else to do it? Seriously, you are the one that has to support your own statements, not us - why should we do your fact-checking? You have it completely backwards.
As for you list, let me ask a clarification: are you stating that LE was slow in reporting the "facts" or that the media was slow in learning what happened?
If the former, I believe that has been clearly addressed here already. When LE makes statements without proper fact-gathering, we get the Brained High fiasco. You rail against LE for that at the same time you want that type of "truth", at least from what I read of your statements.
If the latter, what responsibility does the media have to be proactive on gathering news instead of waiting for LE to issue a report? There is this neat thing called a "scanner" where you can listen and hear incidents happening in real time, send out reproters and so forth.
I don't think your forum, or any message forum is considered to be a legitimate news source. Plus they are read by a fraction of the public, which gets their news from media outlets that can't afford to deal in gossip and slanted opinions.
I gave you the facts. If you don't like them, direct your insults to Chattanogan.com if you like. It's all documented there, as well as other legitimate media outlets.
Thanks again to the good reporters in this town who don't swallow the watered-down, rose-colored version of events given out by politicians and the PR people who are dependent upon them.
I will gladly take "fast, accurate and timely" over "plodding, misleading and manipulative."
Marshall, please respond to what I wrote and not some bizarre tangent. I am not claiming to be a "legitimate news source", nor have I ever been, not that that has anything to do with what I asked you about.
Here, I'll make it easy and repeat the question that hopefully you can answer this time: "Are you stating that LE was slow in reporting the 'facts' or that the media was slow in learning what happened?"
You aren't being clear, and your non-sequitur response isn't even relevant to the conversation. Please answer the question so we can figure out what it is exactly you have a problem about.
Gary, what is it you're having trouble understanding? Marshall makes clear, valid points in his first post, and gave you all the facts you asked for. He's right. In all of the instances he mentioned, it took several days for the truth to come out, and only after the media badgered the police for the truth.
I salute Chattanoogan.com in particular for going after the official police reports that tell the truth about incidents that were given a positive spin.
Nice to see that Marshall has his wife join the forum to support him. Yes, people, I can see email and IP addresses.
> Gary, what is it you're having trouble understanding?
I believe I've stated my question very clearly, and am still waiting a direct response. "Are you stating that LE was slow in reporting the 'facts' or that the media was slow in learning what happened?"
Which is it?
Be direct, don't hide behind "read what I already said" (which doesn't answer the question) or hide behind a family member.
Oh, and the "mermaid" account has been placed on a 48 hour hold, or until "marshall" responds directly. Creating a "cheerleader" account is unacceptable.
Are you stating that LE was slow in reporting the 'facts' or that the media was slow in learning what happened?"
I am stating, quite clearly that LE, in some of these cases never "reported" much of anything, in a public manner. The news media, in various forms, reported information based on bits of information that they received from various sources.
Again, in most of these cases (you may re-read my earlier posts), a "higher-up" such as a spokesperson, or elected official downplayed the incident. The media, in most of these cases, reported what they were told.
And (here we go again), no thanks to LE, it's higher-ups or elected officials, several days later, when some members of the news media go to a great deal of trouble (yes, it's their job) to obtain evidence, or official police reports....then, and only then, the whole truth comes out.
So to repeat my main point yet again, if the LE higher-ups and elected officials would make a commitment to getting the truth out ON THEIR OWN, as soon as possible, and stop downplaying, spinning and soft-selling some serious, dangerous events, the general public (and I don't mean the handful of apologists who post here) might have more confidence in what they're being told.
That's my final word on the topic. It was clear in the first post, and if this can't be understood, it's not my problem.
I just saw on the news where Michelle Michaud is resigning. That's a step in the right direction!
By the way, Gary. Why did you edit your earlier post in which you explained that these news events were "dealt with" in timely fashion on your forum and "Rick's forum?"
Last Edit: Apr 7, 2007 19:51:52 GMT -5 by marshall
First of all, thank you for finally answering my question. I do appreciate that.
> the LE higher-ups and elected officials would make a commitment to getting the truth out ON THEIR OWN
So, it basically comes down to you feeling that the local LE groups need to dispense information better than they are doing right now. I happen to agree with you (which naturally, makes you now part of the "clique" - you'll get your membership card and secret handshake instructions in the mail in 5-7 business days). I do feel that there is a lot more that could be done to disseminate information in a better manner.
I think that LE needs to put a higher priority on PIO functions. We have one person in the CPD (Sgt. Noorbergen) and one person in the HCSO (Officer Rice) to handle media issues for a county of 350,000 people, 250,000 of which live in the city limits. As far as I know, there is no one assigned with the the smaller agencies such as Red Bank, East Ridge, Collegdale, et al.
And it would be stupid for anyone to think that there hasn't been a heavy hand coming from the Mayor's office in the reassignment of the former PIO's (Sgt. Layne and Officer Tilleary) back to patrol. I have heard through the grapevine who the incoming PIO is going to be, and if what I heard is true, it's not even someone in law enforcement but a basic "official spokesman" type that will disseminate what the Mayor (or more directly, Michelle Michaud) wants the media to know. I'm hoping that I am wrong, but I'm enough a realist to know that such things are still far too common in this town.
That said, I also have to point a big finger back at the media for not being nearly as proactive on collecting news on their own. It has gotten to the point where it appears to me that too many news agencies are passively waiting for a press release or news conference instead of investigating things themselves. Scanners are inexpensive, and when you hear a "shots fired" call, it shouldn't be that difficult to hop in a news van and head over to see what's happening, instead of waiting passively for some LE spokesman to hand out a report several days later.
So basically, it is becoming much more imperative that the local news media get more aggressive and proactive in collecting and investigating news instead of complaining about a situation that they had a large hand in creating, that of limited release of information.
On a side note, Marvell and Babs are not lock-step thinkers and while we agree on a number of things, they do not mimic or mirror my thoughts. In fact, Marvell is much calmer and slower to anger than I, which makes him a much better moderator for this category than I ever would. Why you felt a need to single them out for your derision says some not very nice things about you and how you treat people whom you do not know.
Kinda like the fact you have failed to answer any question asked of you in a "fast, accurate and timely" manner?
Are you covering something up? Are you hiding behind a screen name? Do you have an agenda we should know about? Are you just trying to "Downplay" the fact that you have no grasp of the facts? Are you trying to spin things your way? Maybe your are a media "Bigwig" who is upset that you have to actually investigate the news that you are reporting? Or you may actually have to find some sources that trust you enough to tell you the real story?
Or are you part of the gullible, ignorant public (The little people) who sheepishly trust the news from media outlets that can't afford to deal in gossip and slanted opinions when the local media consistently reports news that is barely more than gossip and slanted opinions?
What a "predicable cycle" you have woven for yourself. Are you hopelessly stuck in the web you have woven? It is either that, your Internet is down or you are too cowardly to respond.
Let us in on what is going on with you? We really care!
You can trash this forum, that you evidently read with care, all you want. You can trash the cops all you want. You can trash the PIOs all you want.
But...... why is it that when someone calls you on your BS and when the FACTS are introduced or someone challenges you to "put up or shut up", all of a sudden, you say, "That's my final word on the topic" or try to change the subject or try to add some other bizarre tangent you care to invent for the moment.
When I am getting my ass kicked, I either try to change the subject or run, while screaming like a little girl, from the one who is kicking my ass.
Or I STFU.
I seldom run, I seldom get my ass kicked, I seldom scream like a little girl and I damn sure seldom STFU.
Could it be that you are hunting for another IP to cheerlead yourself?
Why is it your final word?
What say you, marshall, or what ever incarnation of you, we are dealing with today? We would really, really like to hear the marshall watered-down, rose-colored version of events!
So, it appears that "Marshall" was not (and is not) interested in an actual debate or discussion.
It's a shame, really.
Sorry, I'm late for the party but for some reason when I am at work I can't view all the threads on the police blotter but this one popped up this afternoon so I could view it.
This sounds like Deja Vu from all the Mongrel, Coaster and Blevins posts and whoever else it was from the Brainerd deal... BUT... I just have one thing to say about people not getting information fast enough.
There are at least HOW MANY reporters in this town for radio/TV/Newspapers?
There is only ONE PIO for each of these departments... JUST from my personal experience of behind the scenes with the HCSO PIO, you cannot imagine how many phone calls, emails, pages etc. that are generated by these scanners the reporters have. Reporters calling wanting to verify things from bits and pieces from the radio calls across the scanners. Folks, half the time what they are asking about isn't even what is really happening. This generates 3 times the work to check it out and then get back with said source to verify/confirm/authorize information that is accurate. The people that are complaining about "just tell the truth" and "why can't we get accurate information faster than we do now" have to realize when there isn't but one person giving it out but there are 3 or 4 giving it and then 10 - 20 to pass it on too through one central party, then you will just have to wait until they get the information they need out to ALL the right people in order to get it to you... Does this make sense to you all?
I just know all the work and time that is going on behind the scenes and it is absolutely amazing to me that it is as organized or as accurate as it is at this point with the amount of personnel doing it on the LE end of it.