How do you define Conservative and Liberal?

[b33fj3rky]

How do you, personally, define the terms "conservative" and "liberal?" Which one do you consider yourself to be?

Me? I'm a conservative.

My personal definitions of "conservative" and "liberal."

A conservative believes that:

1. The government's primary purpose should be to protect individual liberties,

and

2. As long as I am not harming others, nor initiating force against
others, I should be free to do anything I want without government
interference.

and

3. I, and I alone, should be responsible for the decisions I make in life. If I want to make horrible, stupid choices, that's my problem. The government shouldn't attempt to protect me from myself.



A liberal believes that:

1. The government's primary purpose should be to protect and provide for the common good,

and

2. The government should be able to strip away your personal liberties and dictate your behavior, as long as they do it for the common good's sake,

and

3. Because we're all one big interconnected society, one person's bad life choices can negatively affect all of us. Therefore, the government should actively pressure people to make wise choices.

So a liberal might say to a rich man, "You earn too much money. You
don't need all that money you earn, and other people in this country
can't afford insurance. So the government ought to forcibly remove some of the money in your bank account, and give it to people who need it more than you."

A conservative might say, "You're rich, and from a moral point of view, you ought to help the less fortunate. But legally, you're under no obligation. You're free to keep or give away your money as you see fit.

It may not seem fair that a small number of Americans are very wealthy, and a large number are very poor. However, the government's role is not to make life 'fair' for everybody."


Or, a liberal might say to a gun owner, "You might use your guns to go on an insane rampage and shoot Amish schoolchildren. Therefore, we should take away your guns right now, before you have the chance to go on a rampage."

A conservative would say, "You're free to own guns as long as you use them in a proper, lawful manner. The potential of you shooting
schoolchildren isn't sufficient cause to deprive you of your right to
bear arms."

[tcrashfx]

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

[legaltender]

The terms have been polluted by special interests.

There are no true conservatives. If there were we'd still have segregated schools and women wouldn't be allowed to vote or own property.

I could still call someone 'liberal' who opposed stem cell research and someone backing bilingual education could still be a conservative.

Both sides have too many zombies.

[Felix]

I have thought often on this question, defining two of the most abused words in the language. As Legal Tender notes, the terms have suffered at the hands of various special interests.

"Conserve," the root of "Conservative," means to preserve something against depletion or change. Depending on the target of conservation, you might indeed say that reactionary politics, such as refusing to integrate schools or to allow government to regulate business beyond fraud or malfeasance, is "Conservative."

But you could equally say that protecting natural resources through government action or addressing socially destructive separation of the races is "Conservative."

This discussion could go on for pages, and become very complex.

With his typical pithiness and bite, tcrash nailed ONE of the components of liberal vs. conservative:

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

[el Gusano]

As a corollary, I would add that one sign of a conservative is one that is a Constitutionalist. A liberal thinks that it's a living, breathing document.

Also, a conservative believes in traditional moral values. A liberal thinks it's all just one, big gray area.

But, as a conservative, unless those poor moral choices adversely affect society as a whole, we have a right to be as immoral as we want.

And, as Marvell has pointed out, some conservatives may have a few liberal views, and some liberals might have a few reasonable points of view.

[el Gusano]

On a side not in relation to the quote at hand, we had a notoriously liberal judge. "Oh, he's just a victim of society!" His courtroom was a revolving door for criminal types.

He went to NYC for some sort of convention.

He was mugged.

He ended up going down as one of the most conservative judges in Alaska history. Criminals got a second chance, but that second chance was hard work, and after that, he nailed them with the max punishment every time.

Great guy.

[RuneDeer]

I like to read the columnists in townhall.com, which is a conservative site, and it's interesting to see the breadth of viewpoints there. Some writers are strictly business, very pragmatic, would probably sell their grandmother if the price were right. Others are very religiously oriented. Not the sort of people you'd expect to see getting along in the same room, but there they are. You have the spectrum from William F. Buckley and George Will over to a couple of people who are straight off the evangelical-radio circuit, complete with wild statements and bad, bad grammar.

I think "liberal" is easier to define nowadays than "conservative." Or maybe, just easier to stereotype.

And we moderates are a neglected and endangered species.

[legaltender]

He ended up going down as one of the most conservative judges in Alaska history.

Interesting.

What's his name?

[el Gusano]

Jim Hornaday.

He's mayor now.

Edited to add: He's known as the "Hanging Judge from Homer".

[alphacelt]

I think that these posts alone show that the meanings of the words have become confused. It seems that the labels are now just used to get reactions from people in the media when in reality there is no consensus amongst the "conservatives" nor amongst the "liberals".

3. I, and I alone, should be responsible for the decisions I make in life. If I want to make horrible, stupid choices, that's my problem. The government shouldn't attempt to protect me from myself.

Hello! Sounds like a hippie who wants to smoke dope and have "free love"! Is that conservative or liberal?

Also, a conservative believes in traditional moral values. A liberal thinks it's all just one, big gray area.

But, as a conservative, unless those poor moral choices adversely affect society as a whole, we have a right to be as immoral as we want.

Again, sounds very confused. Liberal - morally gray area, Conservative - blatantly immoral as long as it hurts no one else.

My only point here being that it sounds very mixed up. And no, I don't have any solution or resolution for this isssue.

[el Gusano]

I think you are confusing conservative vs liberal politically and conservative vs liberal socially.

[RuneDeer]

By the way, ideology aside, I will always hate the word "conservatism," even though it's in the dictionary. It just SOUNDS wrong...doesn't that make you a "conservatist?" Shouldn't it be "conservativism?" Marvell??

[Justin Thyme]

Yes, the terms have become confused. Classic liberal thought ushered in free market economic theory and laissez-faire capitalism in the 18th century. During the same time the conservatives were staunch supporters of maintaining the European monarchies.

At the end of the 19th century and the begginning of the 20th century the progressive movement started gaining steam with Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, being one of our earliest progressive presidents. Progressives believed strongly in government working toward the greater good of society. Progressives soon started calling themselves liberals, and in fact, could be seen as a faction that had splintered off from proponents of classic liberal thought much the same as the objectivists and libertarians had.

Since classic liberal thought has now been around for about three hundred years and the US has no monarchy to attempt to maintain those people who wish to conserve the classic liberal thought this country was founded on now call themselves conservatives while the progressives have high jacked the title of liberal. The objectivists and libertarians are left to complain about taxes.

[Felix]

Regarding "conservatism" vs. "conservativism" Runedeer appealed:

It {conservatism} just SOUNDS wrong.

The shorter word sounds somewhat abrupt, compared to "conservativism," but someone else might think that the longer word was clunky and hard to say. You pays your money and you takes your choice. That's probably why the dictionary cites two "correct" forms.

Language changes all the time, so one or the other may win out in usage, and then the question will be settled.

[TNBear]

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged

My older brother was a confirmed conservative until he broke his fool neck and realized that the conservatives were more than willing to let him starve, He began voting Democratic the very next election cycle, and became an active advocate for them.

Therefore: A liberal is a conservative who becomes disabled.

I'm what most would call a liberal, I've been mugged.

A liberal believes that:
2. The government should be able to strip away your personal liberties and dictate your behavior, as long as they do it for the common good's sake,


Mmmm, like the Patriot Act? Like Blue Laws? Like criminalizing oral sex and anal sex between consenting adults?
I really don't think many liberals are in favor of these ideas.

[b33fj3rky]

tnbear said:

A liberal believes that:
2. The government should be able to strip away your personal liberties and dictate your behavior, as long as they do it for the common good's sake,


Mmmm, like the Patriot Act? Like Blue Laws? Like criminalizing oral sex and anal sex between consenting adults?
I really don't think many liberals are in favor of these ideas.

I agree.

A lot of the so-called conservatives in this country are, by my personal definitions, incredibly liberal.

I'd like to grab Pat Robertson by his little waddly leprechaun neck and scream, "SHUT THE HELL UP, YOU LIBERAL BASTARD!" And he wouldn't understand what I meant. He's so retarded, he thinks he's a conservative.

And GW Bush--hes' got to be one of the most liberal presidents in history. He's about as conservative as Karl Marx. The Iraq War has to be the most half-assed, stupid, expensive display of liberalism that I personally have ever seen. Billions and billions of dollars' worth of liberalism, so Bush can try to force democracy on a bunch of people who never asked for it.

[alphacelt]

I think you are confusing conservative vs liberal politically and conservative vs liberal socially.

LOL! Well, no. I'm not confusing them. I guess you sort of make my point for me. Not that long ago if you were conservative, you were conservative. Not conservative politically and liberal socially. I think that is a much more modern approach. Not necessarilyl bad though. Just a change.

[gridbug]

There goes my day, I just discovered I am a conservative. At least I can find solace in the realization that liberals have run the government all millenium.

[el Gusano]

alphacelt said:

Not conservative politically and liberal socially. I think that is a much more modern approach. Not necessarilyl bad though. Just a change.

I don't think it's that modern, but I'd certainly say that it's much more prevalent than it once was.

For example, JFK was pretty conservative fiscally, in the political arena. He realized that tax cuts generated more revenue, so he pushed for them.

But, he we very racist (among other things), so I don't think you could call him conservative socially.

There are many people who are all for abortions, queer marriage, etc., but want to reign in out-of-control spending. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

And a lot of in betweens.

I think GWB is one of the most liberal presidents ever, behind only Jimmy Carter, and perhaps Bill Clinton. (The reason that I say "perhaps" is conjecture based upon his personal statements vs his record. I think his record was to win votes, not his personal convictions. I would prefer that over an our-and-out liberal any day.)

[gridbug]

There are many people who are all for abortions, queer marriage, etc., but want to reign in out-of-control spending. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Given the definitions here, allowing abortions & queer marriage would be conservative issues. Blocking either of them is the government sticking its nose in where it has no business.