osrb
Senior Forumite
Semper Fi
Mostly Harmless
Posts: 3,150
|
Post by osrb on Apr 18, 2007 11:59:48 GMT -5
|
|
Thorne
Global Moderator
God of Thunder
Posts: 533
|
Post by Thorne on Apr 18, 2007 12:41:12 GMT -5
I don't know how well you read the article, cause it doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, if read closely.
As noted by the items that I highlighted, it seems that it makes it more difficult on those that incite hate crimes. Too bad we don't have the balls to do something similar here.
|
|
osrb
Senior Forumite
Semper Fi
Mostly Harmless
Posts: 3,150
|
Post by osrb on Apr 18, 2007 15:17:02 GMT -5
Where does it stop? This is just a stones throw away of the though police.
Who is to say what is going to be tolerated and what is not? Who will make the decisions that what someone said met that criteria? This will change depending who is in power.
Is stuff like "I hate #$@#% (insert group here)" going to end you up in jail?
|
|
|
|
Post by daworm on Apr 18, 2007 22:09:12 GMT -5
The whole concept of "hate crimes" is bullshit. You either commit a crime or you do not. If something is not a crime towards someone you are indifferent to, why should it be a crime towards someone you hate. If you kill someone you love, they are no less dead than if you kill someone you hate.
Besides, how many white-on-black crimes are "hate crimes" versus how many black-on-white crimes?
|
|
zodiacman
Full Member
I'm comin' to get you!
Posts: 273
|
Post by zodiacman on Apr 18, 2007 22:12:30 GMT -5
Hmmm, should be interesting if they ever let Turkey in the EU.
|
|
Thorne
Global Moderator
God of Thunder
Posts: 533
|
Post by Thorne on Apr 18, 2007 23:45:46 GMT -5
How is this a "stones throw away from the thought police"?? First of all, it's already considered a crime in Germany, Austria and several other European countries (read the article or what I pasted) and this is the first that I've seen or heard anything about it (and I would guess the same for the majority of us here), so apparently it's not a big deal to Europeans. As for your "I hate....", again I say read the article. Does your stating "I hate Arabs" (as an example) incite you or others to commit a hate crime (or other crime aimed at Arabs)?? I feel safe in saying "no" to that. Any bets that several million Europeans already say that very thing and don't get hassled by the law, let alone arrested??
And I disagree, Worm. Hate crimes are, by definition, specific in nature and are "a crime, usually violent, motivated by prejudice or intolerance toward a member of a gender, racial, religious, or social group." (from Dictionary.com) They're specifically aimed at whichever group they target, whereas the vast majority of crime is person-to-person, be it murder, theft, what-have-you. The best example would be the KKK.
|
|
|
|
Post by tncoaster37 on Apr 19, 2007 6:25:44 GMT -5
Thirne, the same can be said for the Blank planthers and now the new black panther party. Since they both hate the whites and other races. Thorne, this is nothing more than thought control and heading down towards "1984" orwelian society. We are supposed to be a free society and yet you advocate something that goes against the freedoms of speech that we have in this country. Look ever since WWII, the jews have been milking this for all it's worth. The jews have been blackmailing the world into believing 6 million jews was killed in the holocaust. I don't believe that it was 6 million jews alone but alot of them was what the Nazis considered undesirables like blacks, the disabled both physically and mentally, other races. If you look at the figures and census, there wasn't 6 million jews in europe since most of them exited to the USA during the years between WWI and WWII.
|
|
|
|
Post by daworm on Apr 19, 2007 7:30:48 GMT -5
Thorne, what difference is there in me killing you because you kissed my sister and me killing you because you are black? You are just as dead, and I am just as much a murderer. Murder is murder, assault is assault, slander is slander. What motivates the crime is not the crime.
Move one step back to where these so called "hate speach" laws are aimed. What difference is there in me getting up on a podium and encouraging you to kill your neighbor, and me getting up on a podium and encouraging you to kill your black neighbor? The crime is inciting someone or some group to do harm. The fact that race or religion is used as the motivating factor is incidental, the important part is that I would be trying to persuade you to commit a crime. There is no need to bring race or religion into it, and there is no difference in a "hate crime" than any other crime, and likewise there should be no difference in punishment.
|
|
|
|
Post by tncoaster37 on Apr 19, 2007 8:03:13 GMT -5
Thorne, remember when as called a white man a "white interloper" because he wanted to open up a business in a all black neighborhood. The shop was burned down to the ground by one of Shaprton's followers in which he killed himself and 7 others in that business. It seems that we have a double standard as for as hate crime legislature goes since it only targets the whites not when blacks commit crime against whites which are more frequent that you think.
|
|
|
|
Post by legaltender on Apr 19, 2007 9:29:43 GMT -5
It seems that we have a double standard as for as hate crime legislature goes since it only targets the whites not when blacks commit crime against whites which are more frequent that you think. I don't know how "frequent" they are, but black-on-white attacks are prosecuted as hate crimes: www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5095169Hate crime statutes are a flawed attempt at social congruity. Someone spray painting a swastika on a synagogue can expect a different penalty than one painting a smiley face - but urine on a crucifix is artistic expression. |
|
|
|
Post by tncoaster37 on Apr 19, 2007 9:48:59 GMT -5
LT, that is the first case where blacks are convicted of a hate crime that I have heard of. We have had several crimes where blacks have killed whites and yet they never do get charged with a hate crime. Like I said, any crime committed against any other race is and should be classified as a hate crime. It doesn't get applied but on rare occasions where black on white happens but majority of the time it is on white on black even when no evidence is there of a hate crime committed.
|
|
|
|
Post by legaltender on Apr 19, 2007 10:41:55 GMT -5
LT, that is the first case where blacks are convicted of a hate crime that I have heard of. Didn't mean to queer your narrative. Media blackouts on black-on-white hate crimes are the norm. ... which is not the same thing as saying police refuse to treat them as a hate crime. My fear is hate crimes are just a step toward Thought Crimes. Federal sentencing guidelines already take bias factors into account during sentencing. I think this is sufficient. |
|
|
|
Post by tncoaster37 on Apr 19, 2007 11:28:17 GMT -5
I am with you on that LT. The more rights and controls we give to the government in the name of peace will be that much harder to get back in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by daworm on Apr 19, 2007 12:53:43 GMT -5
And I am glad to find something about which I can wholeheartedly agree with LT.
|
|
