|
Post by el Gusano on Aug 10, 2009 19:12:05 GMT -5
The Medical Marxists try to pack the town hall meetings with supporters, while using violence and threats to keep protesters at bay, and Nancy Pelosi calls pro-freedom protesters nazis. But, when a bunch of liberals are protesting and she approves, what does she say about them? Linkie Linkie
|
|
|
Post by Conservator on Aug 11, 2009 7:35:24 GMT -5
She's simply not defend-able Gus. That's why the lefties are not replying... They couldn't find a way to work in the "it's Bush's fault" card, so no replies! She's a pathetic excuse for a leader of our great country.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 11, 2009 7:56:17 GMT -5
Keep digging guys.
/Certainly not a fan of Pelosi, but peaceful protest and shouting everyone in the room down are not the same thing. It's one thing to shout something out and then STFU, but the people you guys are defending just keep shouting and never STFU. That's stifling debate, not contributing to it.
|
|
|
Post by Conservator on Aug 11, 2009 8:23:12 GMT -5
I wasnt' there... so I couldn't say. Not sure if they were unruly right away, or if they got fed up with the lies and excuses... There's been so many Republicans yelled/shouted down that this will need to go on for another 8 years before I will sympathize with the Dems...
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 11, 2009 8:46:50 GMT -5
Todays Town Hall by Obama could interesting. If they screened everybody(possible), it should make the unrulyness outside even more interesting.
I wish the health care debate could be more civil. It needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, due to the legalized bribery that is lobbying these days, it probably won't.
|
|
|
Post by LimitedRecourse on Aug 11, 2009 15:17:30 GMT -5
If the government provides health care, your EMPLOYER more than likely will drop that as a benefit for you. Be VERY careful what you wish for. If you think it's bad NOW, wait until you see what government-run anything will be like. Ask anyone how many doctors they have as options if they are on TennCare/Medicare/Medicaid. Ask any veteran how long their benefits last...if they are ever approved for any.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 11, 2009 15:47:44 GMT -5
What we have now is for profit insurance companies that have staffed entire floors of buildings with the task of figuring out ways to deny people coverage. That's what I call a Death Panel.
Everyone is crowing the big lie about "killing Granny", but it's the insurance companies that are already doing the exact same thing that they're complaining about.
|
|
|
Post by spastikcomma on Aug 11, 2009 15:49:50 GMT -5
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 11, 2009 15:56:52 GMT -5
Nice try Spastikcomma, but surely someone will come on here and say that because the article was posted in Salon, it's meaningless and full of liberal lies, despite the fact that the article quotes directly from an investigation conducted by The American Medical Association.
|
|
|
Post by LimitedRecourse on Aug 11, 2009 15:59:00 GMT -5
I agree that insurance companies should never trump the doctor in medically necessary care. Howeer, I don't believe the government will do better at these decisions. Try getting a name changed on your Social Security Card. Takes WEEKS and that's a pretty easy task.
|
|
Tookie
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,747
|
Post by Tookie on Aug 11, 2009 17:33:52 GMT -5
If you want to see how "well run" a federal medical program can be, take a look at the federal workers' compensation program. You'll gag.
|
|
|
Post by doughlady on Aug 11, 2009 17:38:04 GMT -5
As a recipient of both Medicare and Social Security, I must say that my dealings with both have been much more satisfying than with insurance carriers. Once the doctors' offices got their act together and filed correctly, I've never had one problem with Medicare. Medicare has paid claims on time and communicated efficiently. I've had the same experience with four parents on Medicare before their deaths. When I was covered by Cigna and Blue Cross before retirement, I had multiple problems with claims over the years.
Just because I am taken care of by Medicare does not mean that I don't see a huge need for health care reform. Two of my children are self-employed extremely hard workers not looking for any handout but just fairness. They have had nightmares with insurance companies. My daughter and her family pay almost $700 a month for medical insurance with a $4,500 deductible. It took them years to even get insurance as a family because of a preexisting condition that my son-in-law had 8 years previous (with no recurrence since the surgery). He has had no medical issues or expenses for 10 years until this past week when he needed hernia surgery. Dealing with the insurance company (Assurant) was horrible from the lack of communication to the erroneous information about which doctors and surgery centers were in network. At this point, it looks like the anesthesiologist's fees won't even be covered. Like it or not, the insurance companies will do what they can to prevent covering or paying claims. I know. I worked for one for 19 years.
From some of the town meetings I've seen TV clips of, many of the most vocal opponents are older but are probably on Medicare. If they don't want government interference in their health care, they should have the courage of their convictions as my late uncle did. After serving and being wounded in World War II, he returned home to farm the family acreage, paid all his taxes over the years, but when he turned 65, he refused to sign up for Medicare. All his medical bills he paid out of his savings until he died five years ago. He felt the country was moving toward socialism and did not want to be a part of that. But then he was a remarkable man in many ways.
|
|
|
Post by el Gusano on Aug 11, 2009 18:39:42 GMT -5
Hey, just take a pill!
|
|
|
Post by rstewart on Aug 12, 2009 7:03:46 GMT -5
Blackfox, Whom do you think would produce the best carpet, the government or the evil for profit company Shaw?
My money is on Shaw to produce a FAR superior product at a MUCH lower cost.
Now let us ask the same question about healthcare. Who do you think will manage healthcare better, government or the evil for profit company BlueCross? Again my money is on BlueCross to provide a better plan at lower costs.
If you want to see government healthcare in action just take a short drive over to the Alvin C. York hospital in Murfressboro. While you're there you can have a colonoscpopy done. They've fixed the contamination issue so you shouldn't be exposed to HIV any longer like thousands of your fellow vets already were. This is government healthcare.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 12, 2009 7:27:19 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the government plan would not replace all the hospitals with government hospitals. Isn't it more about making sure more people have access to existing hospitals and procedures?
|
|
|
Post by rstewart on Aug 12, 2009 8:41:02 GMT -5
I am not opposed to more people having access to healthcare nor am I opposed to that healthcare being better than what is available now. What I don't get is HOW to get to that point. We certainly won't get there with government running/directing things. All that will do is increase the bullshit and the cost at the same time. Speaking of cost, is anyone really believing the estimated cost of healthcare reform? I certainly am not buying it, IMHO the estimates WAY, WAY, WAY too low. The actual cost will be about 10 times greater than estimates. How do we pay for this? We can only tax the "rich" so much before they take their ball and go home. Also while not specifically including illegal immigrants there is nothing that specifically EXCLUDES them either. Why not?
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 12, 2009 8:53:27 GMT -5
The POTUS has said that he will not sign a bill that adds to the deficit, so there's that. Maybe he will anyway, but he's on the record saying that he won't.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 12, 2009 8:54:56 GMT -5
Many of our health care problems could be solved by cracking down on immigration, but that ain't happening any time soon. It's a good issue for the Republicans to run on next time though, and I'm with them on that one.
|
|
|
Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 12, 2009 9:37:12 GMT -5
Immigration, while appearing to be a big drain on our health care resources, isn't the problem causing runaway costs. The problem goes back to the way "usual and customary" charges are calculated. If those charges were calculated on the services used by the patient rather than by the services provided by the health care provider you would see a lot lower bills and a lot fewer facilities offering full service diagnostics and treatment offerings.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 12, 2009 10:02:55 GMT -5
You're right JiT. I had no clue, but found this article, and it drives home even more to me the fact that insurance companies are practicing something that is near criminal. money.cnn.com/2005/05/26/pf/insurance/usual_and_customary/We need to know before hand what a procedure will cost and what the insurance will pay. It shouldn't be that hard for doctors and insurance companies to work together. Instead we go in thinking that we will be covered since we have been paying our ever growing premiums only to find out that we are still being stuck with almost the entire bill. Yes, reform is needed.
|
|
|
Post by rstewart on Aug 12, 2009 14:28:37 GMT -5
The POTUS has said that he will not sign a bill that adds to the deficit, so there's that. Maybe he will anyway, but he's on the record saying that he won't. That's a cop out. Supposedly all spending bills are deficit neutral, yet we continue to grow the debt and budget defict year after year. All they, Congress, has to do is exempt this from being deficit neutral and it's all good. I don't believe anything ANY politican tells me so no I'm not believing him. He's just like any politician, he will say WHATEVER he must to get what he wants. And when called on it, it's a misundertanding or some such bullshit. LIke when he said the unemployment rate might reach 9% if we didn't pass the non-stimulus bill. It's now 9.4% AFTER we pissed nearly a $1 Trillion away.
|
|
|
Post by rstewart on Aug 12, 2009 14:31:51 GMT -5
You're right JiT. I had no clue, but found this article, and it drives home even more to me the fact that insurance companies are practicing something that is near criminal. money.cnn.com/2005/05/26/pf/insurance/usual_and_customary/We need to know before hand what a procedure will cost and what the insurance will pay. It shouldn't be that hard for doctors and insurance companies to work together. Instead we go in thinking that we will be covered since we have been paying our ever growing premiums only to find out that we are still being stuck with almost the entire bill. Yes, reform is needed. There is quite a simple solution to this, ASK the question, "How much of this will my insurance cover?". If the Dr office can't or won't tell you this information it's time to deal with another Dr. They know how much they are to be compensated for EVERY single procedure they perform. if they say otherwise they are LIARS. Otherwise, how do they know when the insurance companies rip them off? They know the reimbursement schedule. Reform may be needed but I'm CERTAIN the government getting involved as an insurer is not the answer.
|
|
|
Post by el Gusano on Aug 12, 2009 15:21:03 GMT -5
Government already heavily regulates insurance. We're already controlled by government run healthcare, just without the added cost and inefficiency that a government bureaucracy will add.
|
|
nic
Full Member
Alien
Posts: 227
|
Post by nic on Aug 13, 2009 4:55:38 GMT -5
I'm an immigrant. I did see the Doctor last week, and paid $30 for it. I'm not sure I drained the economy that much. I also filled a couple of prescriptions, that must be what you are thinking of, because, one prescription they tried to charge me $36 for, when, in fact, it was an over the counter pill, for $6.
Here's a question. To me, as a Brit, I see Health Care as a right. (And with it a responsibility.) Now, people complain that universal healthcare would stop them seeing the doctor they wanted to. But, how is that different to the school system. I don't see a whole bunch of people complaining that Socialised Education is making them send their child to Red Bank, or Ringgold.
So, why isn't education up there as a 'need to privatize' on the Republican agenda?
|
|
|
Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 13, 2009 5:35:14 GMT -5
How can you see health care as a right? Health care requires the labor of others. If it is a right you are saying you have the right to the fruits of their labor. How can it be a right if it infringes on others?
The Republicans do not really want to privatize education any more than Democrats do because government education indoctrinates people into believing they are dependent upon government which means they are dependent on both Democrats and Republicans. Regardless of what they pretend to say Republicans also want you dependent upon them.
|
|
|
Post by rstewart on Aug 13, 2009 5:40:34 GMT -5
Nic,
Are you an illegal immigrant? If not I was not referring to you at all. I have issue whatsoever with legal immigrants, it's the illegal ones that I take issue with.
Being a Limey, which health system do you find provides the best patient care, the one in Britian or the one in the USA?
|
|
|
Post by augie47 on Aug 13, 2009 8:23:37 GMT -5
Here's a question. To me, as a Brit, I see Health Care as a right. (And with it a responsibility.) Now, people complain that universal healthcare would stop them seeing the doctor they wanted to. But, how is that different to the school system. I don't see a whole bunch of people complaining that Socialised Education is making them send their child to Red Bank, or Ringgold. So, why isn't education up there as a 'need to privatize' on the Republican agenda? you might want to take a look at this..... www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.htmlI think that's why we aren't also Brits. I fail to see which ammendment provides for government healthcare.
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 13, 2009 8:33:27 GMT -5
I wonder how many chickens or cows it would cost me to get heart surgery?
|
|
|
Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 13, 2009 8:53:49 GMT -5
I wonder how many chickens or cows it would cost me to get heart surgery? Do you need heart surgery?
|
|
BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
|
Post by BlackFox on Aug 13, 2009 8:58:09 GMT -5
I wonder how many chickens or cows it would cost me to get heart surgery? Do you need heart surgery? No, just trying to make the point that you can't compare the modern day to the founders times. I would guess that if a medical procedure in their times could have driven you into bankruptcy, it may very well have been a right.
|
|