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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 13, 2009 9:17:26 GMT -5
Do you need heart surgery? No, just trying to make the point that you can't compare the modern day to the founders times. I would guess that if a medical procedure in their times could have driven you into bankruptcy, it may very well have been a right. Chickens and cows have value and the value of those items can be identified just by going to the local grocery store. So the cost of hear surgery can be calculated in chickens and cows even today if you so desire. Are you saying that medical procedures driving people into bankruptcy are just a recent phenomena? One of the themes of A Christmas Carol was a family unable to pay for a child's medical care. Remember Tiny Tim? There have been countless books and movies using expensive medical procedures as a the cause for financial hardships in families for as far back as books have been published and movies have been made. Medical care has always been a financial concern to people. Why is it suddenly being thought of as a crisis?
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Post by el Gusano on Aug 13, 2009 9:21:54 GMT -5
Bad business decisions can drive you into bankruptcy. Good business decisions and a fickle customer base can drive you into bankruptcy. Selling an obsolete product (or one that not enough people want) can drive you into bankruptcy. What about those rights?
Oh, and in our public education system, you can send your kids wherever you want. We also have the highest rate of homeschooling. For that matter, local taxes provide all sorts of materials and services to help parents homeschool their kids. There is also a wide variety of different homeschooling systems around the state that you can choose from. If you are homeschooling, your child can still take lab classes at school, by law, and if it's the local program, can still participate in sports, and ride the school bus to and from town to do so.
I know one girl who is in a homeschooling system from Galena, which you can only get to by flying, and is many hundreds of miles away, and she is graduating at 17, and has scholarship offers to any university she wants to attend. She is leaning toward Ivy League.
Oh, and the schools will also give you joint credit (high school and college) for attending college classes during high school, at a cost of only $25 per credit hour. Our homeschooled kids take advantage of that a lot.
Lots of options when people control their government instead of the other way around.
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BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 13, 2009 9:22:31 GMT -5
Because these days a couple nights in the hospital can bankrupt a family. Health care costs have FAR exceeded wages even before the recent decline in wages. It is clear that unless you are independently wealthy, you could very well be one major health scare away from financial ruin. That shit's not right.
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BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 13, 2009 9:24:18 GMT -5
Bad business decisions can drive you into bankruptcy. Good business decisions and a fickle customer base can drive you into bankruptcy. Selling an obsolete product (or one that not enough people want) can drive you into bankruptcy. What about those rights? Those are all choices. I don't know too many people who choose to get cancer.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Aug 13, 2009 9:32:55 GMT -5
Because these days a couple nights in the hospital can bankrupt a family. Health care costs have FAR exceeded wages even before the recent decline in wages. It is clear that unless you are independently wealthy, you could very well be one major health scare away from financial ruin. That shit's not right. That has always been the case. What I'm saying is that none of this is new. Why do you think health insurance ever came into being? Insurance is there to protect you from financial ruin. Health plans pay for everyday medical procedures that most people could pay for out of pocket but prefer to have a more predictable way of paying for its use. Health insurance covers the stuff that can ruin you and, usually, has a high deductable. None of this stuff is new. We have always paid a high price for medical procedures and I'm not really sure we are seeing higher costs per procedures or just more procedures being performed because of better diagnostics. And are medical costs higher now because of all the better diagnostics that we are being put through because they are now available.
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Post by Conservator on Aug 13, 2009 11:27:04 GMT -5
Nic - to your point on our country's education system being socialized... you're right it is, and in many cases it does not work. The cost per child is crazy in most the country, and many areas around the country people don't really have a "choice". Granted, Gus's example of homeschooling... but that is not possible for most Amercans. Private schools are too expensive for most middle & lower class citizens, so they are stuck with sub-par schools. I'm all for vouchers, for kids to use their share of public school funds, to be able to use it towards a private school... and most who support that are Republican, not Dems. Florida is experimenting (on a large scale - over ) with charter schools. They are privately ran schools that get funding like public schools. In most cases, these charter schools are succeeding... better scores, more efficient, etc... This could start taking root across the country... (well not while the Dems are in control). They work... for a simple reason... Government can not (never have, never will) run anything efficiently.
But back to Pelosi... she is pathetic.
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Post by el Gusano on Aug 13, 2009 15:23:30 GMT -5
We can't have vouchers! That would take control away from the unions and put it into the hands of those who produce quality work! (It would also educate minorities and poor and the would no longer vote for democrats or join unions.)
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BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
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Post by BlackFox on Aug 14, 2009 7:41:36 GMT -5
Vouchers? Sounds like socialism to me.
/supports vouchers
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Post by el Gusano on Aug 14, 2009 9:11:42 GMT -5
I've gone on record as being opposed to public schools that are funded by the Fed. But, if they steal the money, you have the right to try to get it back.
Let me ask you: If you were walking around Coolidge Park and someone stole $1000 from you, would you not take the opportunity to get $100 of it back?
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Scarlet&Gray
Senior Forumite
Mr. Ohio
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Post by Scarlet&Gray on Aug 14, 2009 18:39:37 GMT -5
Who in their right mind would walk around coolidge park with 1k. Or anywhere in the crime captial of Tennessee, Chattanooga where you can place a bet the po po is gonna shoot ya.
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osrb
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Semper Fi
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Post by osrb on Aug 14, 2009 19:18:33 GMT -5
Many of our health care problems could be solved by cracking down on immigration, but that ain't happening any time soon. It's a good issue for the Republicans to run on next time though, and I'm with them on that one. Come on anybody who wants to enforce our immigration is just a xenophobe.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Aug 14, 2009 19:41:41 GMT -5
Because these days a couple nights in the hospital can bankrupt a family. Health care costs have FAR exceeded wages even before the recent decline in wages. It is clear that unless you are independently wealthy, you could very well be one major health scare away from financial ruin. That shit's not right. That's what you know; let me tell you what I SEE. I SEE a single woman who works three jobs trying to adopt an infant, but she's denied because her 21-year-old-never-had-a-job son still lives with her. He's NOT sick, either! I SEE a single mother of three who's damn near thirty-five and STILL A STUDENT. WTF is she studying, procreation?!?! I SEE week after week, month after month of deadbeat health care bleeding the County to death at Erlanger Hospital Emergency Room, full of smokers, dope-smokers, drunks, illegal aliens, the itinerant, people who come miles from out-of-state, and all the rest. We've already GOT socialized medicine! The only question I SEE on the table is whether to spend ONE TRILLION Federal tax dollars to pay for it!
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