Bible-toting Cheerleaders

[Felix]

From the [url=http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2009/sep/29/cheerleaders-religious-signs-draw-fire/
]Times Free Press[/url]:

Community members are rallying around Lakeview-Fort Oglethorpe High School cheerleaders after they were banned from displaying signs with Bible verses urging fans and players to “commit to the Lord” and “take courage and do it.”

Catoosa County Schools spokeswoman Marissa Brower said a Fort Oglethorpe resident lodged a verbal complaint to Superintendent Denia Reese last week, saying that the display of a Bible verse on the football field is a violation of federal law.

A school system statement released Monday said the message constitutes “a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution for signs with Bible verses to be displayed on the football field.”

I have no difficulty with expressions at public events of religious sentiments, especially if the event is basically an entertainment, not educational, gathering. Especially if you live in the South, that sort of thing is part of the landscape. Not oppressive.

[BlackFox]

If any of the players opposed it because they were Muslim or Wiccan or whatever, then I could see making them stop doing it, but this all seems like much ado over nothing to me.

[coffeeshooter]

Does anyone know how LFO compares academically to other schools in the area?
They play one of their rival teams this week. Maybe this media attention will curb some of the fights on game night.

[osrb]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Isn't what the school doing in direct conflict with prohibiting the free exercise thereof; part of the first amendment? It seems that people only believe in "establishment of religion" and "of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." They totally ignore the middle parts.

[Bloodhound]

It is my understanding that the cheerleaders are official representatives of a public school and therefor should not express any religious bias while preforming their official duties as said representatives of that public school while on or off public school grounds, while in or out of uniform. Now if the young ladies would also like to raise a circle in the name of the Mother Goddess and praise Vishnu, Buddha and Allah in addition to waving banners with Bible verses, then I guess that would be all right.

I personally find the whole matter annoying, not offensive. Religion is a personal choice and I don't feel that I should have to be exposed to the majority view of it just as much as anyone else wants to be force fed my take on it. I also feel that the prayers, refereed to as "devotionals", before a game are in violation of the separation of church and state. If you want to pray for your team, fine. Do it quietly. Do it quickly. If you are Central High playing at Red Bank this week, do it often.


You're gonna need it.

---

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

that's a nice try, but we are talking about an establishment of public education, not an establishment of religion.

[daworm]

I have no difficulty with expressions at public events of religious sentiments, especially if the event is basically an entertainment, not educational, gathering. Especially if you live in the South, that sort of thing is part of the landscape. Not oppressive.

I do, in certain instances, and this is one of them. For one, there is an implicit assumption that because that verse is there, that all of the football players running through that banner, and even all of the students who cheer them on, are also religious. Were each of the cheerleaders wearing a pin with a Bible verse on it, I have no problem with it, as that would be a personal expression. But as a banner for the football team, that as an expression in the context of the school as a whole, and I find it inappropriate, much as I find the invocation usually held before such events equally inappropriate. Again, I have no problem with individuals, even in a school setting, expressing their religious beliefs. The a-holes who want to kick kids out for wearing head scarves or crucifix's are completely in the wrong. I don't even care if a teacher hangs a cross in his or her room, as long as there are no proscriptions on personal adornments that would apply equally to photos of their spouse. But when it is a public school sanctioned, sponsored event, religion should play no part in it. The individuals can express whatever they want in their capacity as individuals, but as representatives of the school they should be more limited.

[snarkalicious]

I plan to attend their next game with a large sign stating "ALLAH WANTS YOU TO DECLARE A JIHAD AGAINST THE OTHER TEAM"

(wonder what Jesus thinks of those tiny little short skirts and booty-shaking dances they do?)

[sargonkiadi]

I fall back on my melting pot theory and some of the support it has had through our own government. Separation of church and state. It's a public school. Think next time cheerleaders, what if little Suzy is a practicing Hindu and suggested they put a verse from the Bhagavad Gita. a) she gets laughed at and told no, and b) it's not fair for the Christian practicing girls.

Public schools get away with lots of this. Doesn't seem right.

[Justin Thyme]

(wonder what Jesus thinks of those tiny little short skirts and booty-shaking dances they do?)

I don't think He would have much of a problem with it. But I'm just basing that on the fact that he never spoke against short skirts or booty shaking in any of the Gospels.

[www.nooganews.com]

I am going tonight and I am taking my Madilyn Murray O'Hair inspired banner

[LimitedRecourse]

Any takers on the bet that at least ONE swastika appears?

[Conservator]

Bet they'll have a record fan attendance tonight though...

[TNBear]

"A tempest in a teapot"

[Action!]

I have no difficulty with expressions at public events of religious sentiments, especially if the event is basically an entertainment, not educational, gathering. Especially if you live in the South, that sort of thing is part of the landscape. Not oppressive.

I have no problem with it either, as long as everybody in attendance, including all the players, cheerleaders and spectators are all christians. Non-christians don't want this crap shoved down their throats at school sponsored games or other activities.

[Jethro]

If you are offended by Christian expressions move to another place.

[LimitedRecourse]

"Non-christians don't want this crap shoved down their throats..."

And yet you believe that the city/state/federal government should sponsor gay pride parades & rallies....no hypocrisy there.

[Action!]

Oct 3, 2009 7:46:45 GMT -5 Jethro said:

If you are offended by Christian expressions move to another place.

I'd rather fight all the christian activities by filing federal lawsuits. It's way more fun plus I have the right to live wherever I want.

[Action!]

Oct 3, 2009 9:21:53 GMT -5 LimitedRecourse said:

"Non-christians don't want this crap shoved down their throats..."

And yet you believe that the city/state/federal government should sponsor gay pride parades & rallies....no hypocrisy there.

I have never said, nor do I think that the city/state or federal government should sponsor gay pride parades or rallies. Where do you get your information from? The difference between a football game is that it is open to everybody. Gay pride events are also open to everybody, but few straight, bible-thumper would dare go to one, so they would never be offended by anything in the first place. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

[LimitedRecourse]

I think a public street in down town is more likely to be freely traveled than a small football stadium.

[Action!]

Nothing is stopping you from crossing the street should your little mind even be slightly offended by a pride celebration.

[el Gusano]

Nothing is forcing you into the stadium should your tiny little mind be offended by people exercising their rights.

[Action!]

Nothing is forcing you into the stadium should your tiny little mind be offended by people exercising their rights.

I wouldn't be going to the stadium to see religious statements. I'd be going to watch a football game.

[zodiacman]

As a practicing Satanist, I think that the fact that they are running through a banner, actually destroying, a verse from a book in the Bible is a good thing as it is a metaphor of how humanity is more powerful than God and will one day destroy the weakness that is Christianity.

Actually, I'm not. I believe in Jesus and attend (admittedly not as often as I should) an Episcopal church but have an open minded view of religion. I just felt like spinning it in a bizarre direction.

It just seems like any sort of organized religious expression is sort of out of place at a public school football game. It's one thing to make the sign of the cross and point to the sky after you score a touchdown, but this is taking it too far.

[Action!]

I agree, and just because the cheerleaders have been doing it here for years doesn't make it right. And, just because we live in the south, or what used to be the "bible-belt" doesn't change the fact they they are breaking federal law. I also find it odd that anytime I post on this forum either LR or EL G have to make a comparison to something gay related. This topic has nothing to do about anything gay, yet LR , once again, has to bring up the gay card. He has a one track mind and probably a closet homo himself.

[Justin Thyme]

but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
-Matthew 5:39 ASV

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, that ye resist not the evil man - Thus; the Greek word translated resist signifies standing in battle array, striving for victory.
-John Wesley's Bible Commentary

A lot of people tend to view this verse as meaning that Christians should be pacifist. It doesn't. It is actually telling us to stand our ground but choose our opposition in an appropriate way and to act in righteousness and not in vengeance.

In the case of LFO and the football team running through the Bible verse the school superintendent is righteous in his ruling. LFO is a government school and the team running through the verse made the verse a part of a government sponsored activity. Rallying against a righteous decision is not a righteous act.

What might have been a better response? Maybe finding a classmate who is going through a bad time to give support and comfort to. Maybe finding a family in the community who is having run of bad luck and learning how to help them recover. The idea is that we don't honor God with public displays of piety, we honor God by our just actions, the mercy we show toward others and by humbling ourselves before Him.

[gridbug]

The cheerleaders might have a point, but only if they start dressing modestly first.

[Justin Thyme]

Oct 5, 2009 11:50:39 GMT -5 @gridbug said:

The cheerleaders might have a point, but only if they start dressing modestly first.

Please explain to me how that is a problem.

[gridbug]

Please explain to me how that is a problem.

Don't most christian denominations, especially most protestants, believe that one should dress modestly? I can't say I've been in a church recently, but do many parishioners dress to show their panties?

[coffeeshooter]

Oct 5, 2009 11:50:39 GMT -5 @gridbug said:

The cheerleaders might have a point, but only if they start dressing modestly first.

... save The Cheerleader, save the world.

[Justin Thyme]

Even in the Baptist Church I attended in my youth when mini-skirts were the style little was said about it from the pulpit and when it was it was a statement on pop culture. Public nudity is frowned on but I've never heard a complaint about cheerleader uniforms in any Christian church I've ever attended. Have you?