A couple of signs

[el Gusano]

[printemps]

Snopes:

"A State Farm representative said that Bud Gregg's office sign bore these messages until 3 July 2008."

[Action!]

Really old news.

[el Gusano]

And your point?

[okz]

Ya ever notice how baggers and birthers are all about spreading democracy throughout the world, but when they lose elections they start talking about revolution?

these people need to grow the fuck up

[el Gusano]

So, you're not a big fan of the founding fathers.

Not surprised.

"As revolutionary instruments (when nothing but revolution will cure the evils of the State) [secret societies] are necessary and indispensable, and the right to use them is inalienable by the people." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1803

[gridbug]

Last week I was asking one of these Liberty/Constitutionalist types what had her so fired up against the Red Bank traffic cameras. Well, one thing led to another and she ended up posting videos of Tea Party folks railing against ALL traffic laws as "unconstitutional".

That is when I realized my difference with those folks. I would like to see the US become a First World country (now all we are is rich and we can kick any other country's ass) and these Liberty/Constitutionalist types want to drag us down to be a Third World country.

It is hardly surprising, this is what we get for having an educational system ranked in the high thirties.

[Felix]

Gus, I am glad you included the stipulation in Jefferson's statement on grounds for revolution:

...when nothing but revolution will cure the evils of the State {emphasis added}

Otherwise, your comment, referencing the sign advocating revolution, would seem to support armed insurrection if elections do not go your way. I don't believe you advocate any such thing, but simply enjoy dramatic and unqualified rhetoric.

[printemps]

Ideology and history are different things. The Texas School Board replacing agnostic philosophers with Christian theologians in textbooks seems oblivious to that.

[Conservator]

Thanks grid. That reminds me of yet another government ran system that is failing...
social security, medicare, medicade, and almost the entire educational system.

What else can we have them run? (into the ground)

[Justin Thyme]

It is hardly surprising, this is what we get for having an educational system ranked in the high thirties.

Which, for the most part, is run by the government. If we start looking at when health care cost first started getting out of control, in the late 60s, we see that the Medicare program was started a few years earlier, in 1965. I'll even go so far as to say that HIPAA, passed in 1996, was responsible for the jump we see in costs at the beginning of 2000 and on until today.

www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/tables.pdf

[gridbug]

That reminds me of yet another government ran system that is failing...social security, medicare, medicade, and almost the entire educational system.

Really. Where are the politicians with the balls to save us from real socialized medicine, like medicare, medicaid, and VA hospitals?

[Justin Thyme]

Mar 22, 2010 9:29:19 GMT -5 @gridbug said:

That reminds me of yet another government ran system that is failing...social security, medicare, medicade, and almost the entire educational system.

Really. Where are the politicians with the balls to save us from real socialized medicine, like medicare, medicaid, and VA hospitals?

It isn't a politicians job to save us. It is a politician's job to secure his or her job.

[gridbug]

It isn't a politicians job to save us. It is a politician's job to secure his or her job.

And to represent lobbyists

[osrb]

VA hospitals?

At least those going to the VA hospitals have earned the privilege.

I would have been a lot happier if the changes were to clean up and streamline the process. Throwing people in jail for fraud of the system would be a good start.

People talk of entitlements from the government. What entitlements other then to prevent barriers to success? The more government gives the less people will do. It is not the governments job to take care of us from cradle to grave. It is our job to work hard and succeed on our own.

[el Gusano]

Yes, Felix, you are correct, but it will be interesting the next few months as more and more states assert their rights against a federal government that has exceeded their authority for far too many years.

And not all revolutions are armed insurrections, although they sometimes come to that.

[printemps]

If insurance companies engage in interstate commerce, the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) probably attaches. Not sure about the mandate. You have to buy car insurance but you don't have to have a car. Homeowner's insurance is mandated for mortgage-holders, but, again, you can rent. But everybody has some health insurance costs, and if you aren’t insured, there’s no free lunch. Somebody else is paying for it. It's not a constitutional slam dunk, either way.

[Justin Thyme]

If insurance companies engage in interstate commerce, the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) probably attaches.

Until now the regulation of insurance companies has rested with the state. Each policy sold within the state is a state approved policy. Because of this the risk pools are usually limited to residents of those states. My health insurance is with BC/BS of Massachusetts because that is where my wife's company is headquartered but I still think that the policy covering us is a Georgia policy. With this being the case is interstate commerce occurring?

[printemps]

Mar 22, 2010 13:54:59 GMT -5 Justin Thyme said:

My health insurance is with BC/BS of Massachusetts because that is where my wife's company is headquartered but I still think that the policy covering us is a Georgia policy. With this being the case is interstate commerce occurring?

Congress can't regulate the commercial activity of the sale of insurance, but can regulate the removal of a person's appendix because that constitutes interstate commerce?

The same Congress that wants to tell family farmers what to grow in their backyards.

Doesn't BC/BS base its GA rates on national tables and risk factors competitvely with other multi-state operators?

I'm not saying there's a bright-line distinction and settled case law. But the kind of barriers to interstate commerce erected by the states around health insurance are exactly the kind of thing that the Commerce Clause was intended for.

[daworm]

Really. Where are the politicians with the balls to save us from real socialized medicine, like medicare, medicaid, and VA hospitals?

For two of the three, I wish I knew. I have no problems with the concept of VA Hospitals (I used to, but I've learned better). The execution of them leaves a lot to be desired (here's a program where not enough is being spent, but that money needs to come from the military budget, a whole different discussion).

Social Security wasn't sold as THE retirement plan so many people are using it for, it was sold as a safety net in case of financial disaster. Look what it has grown into. The elderly vote won't ever touch that golden goose, either. This health insurance bill has all the potential to be the same thing. It is sold as a way to provide insurance to the uninsurable, but I fear it will grow well beyond its original mandate just as Social Security did, with the accompanying ever growing price tag.

[el Gusano]

Mar 22, 2010 13:45:43 GMT -5 printemps said:

and if you aren’t insured, there’s no free lunch. Somebody else is paying for it.

Why do you people keep equating "health care" with "health insurance"?

Many people pay their own way, with no health insurance whatsoever. Many people also have a very minimal catastrophic care policy with a high deductible, and put that high deductible into a savings account.

However, most people choose to focus their priorities on cable TV, fast food, and new rims for their cars.

[printemps]

Mar 22, 2010 15:53:29 GMT -5 el Gusano said:

Many people pay their own way, with no health insurance whatsoever. Many people also have a very minimal catastrophic care policy with a high deductible, and put that high deductible into a savings account.

Good luck with that. Maybe we should cross-reference cable TV subscribers with Medicaid enrollees and clinic/ER visitors and pro-rate the hell out of the malefactors.

[daworm]

Hmmm, you may be on to something there. Proof of insurance is required to buy a car. What other things could proof of insurance be required for?

[Tsavodiner]

Mar 22, 2010 8:36:40 GMT -5 @gridbug said:

Last week I was asking one of these Liberty/Constitutionalist types what had her so fired up against the Red Bank traffic cameras. Well, one thing led to another and she ended up posting videos of Tea Party folks railing against ALL traffic laws as "unconstitutional".

That is when I realized my difference with those folks. I would like to see the US become a First World country (now all we are is rich and we can kick any other country's ass) and these Liberty/Constitutionalist types want to drag us down to be a Third World country.

It is hardly surprising, this is what we get for having an educational system ranked in the high thirties.

What exactly do you call a "First World" country? Is that something you learned in your United Nations visitor familiarization tour class?

As for education, try going down on Fagan Street for a while and talk shit about tea partiers, constitutionalists, or anything else you like. You'll find ignorance comes in all stripes, and you'll get YOURS if you venture down there to bring them into your Grand "First World".

As for Third World, you don't know what you're talking about. Get on down to Nuevo Laredo if you want a dose. Hell, I'll even buy the bus ticket (sorry, one-way. hard times, ya' know!)
I've been twice now and I don't even believe it! Medieval.

[gridbug]

At least those going to the VA hospitals have earned the privilege.

And any congressperson will tell you how they have earned a lifelong pension. Whether you agree or not, it is socialized medicine.

Is that something you learned in your United Nations visitor familiarization tour class?

Of course - in my liberal indoctrination classes.

As for Third World, you don't know what you're talking about.

Doesn't Cairo count? You may thing I live in denial, buy I used to live by the Nile