What happened to Soetoro's promise to close Gitmo?

[el Gusano]

Close it? It's become one of his tools!

Obama: Life Imprisonment Without Trial

President Obama's Guantanamo Review Task Force has “unanimously” concluded that 48 detainees at Guantanamo should be detained indefinitely — in essence, a life sentence — without trial, including lifetime detention for some detainees who, the commission concluded, hadn't committed any crimes that “constitute a chargeable offense in either a federal court or military commission.” The Washington Post revealed May 28 that the Task Force decided to repatriate the majority of the 240 detainees they investigated, while other detainees should be tried in criminal court or by “military commissions” the Obama administration would reconstitute.

Most Guantanamo detainees have already languished in prison for eight years without trial, and the commission — consisting of officials from the intelligence, military, Defense, Homeland Security, State and Justice departments — concluded the following of the 48 detainees who would remain in prison without trial indefinitely:

Generally these detainees cannot be prosecuted because either there is presently insufficient admissible evidence to establish the detainee's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in either a federal court or military commission, or the detainee's conduct does not constitute a chargeable offense in either a federal court or military commission.

In other words, the Obama administration officials think the detainees might have committed a crime but can't be sure, or they are sure the detainees didn't commit a crime and want to keep them in prison for life anyway.

[Scarlet&Gray]

Why ask us, call and ask him. Takes a long time to clean up other party's messes.

[Conservator]

Jay Santos still has a "Yes We Can" sticker on his bumper.

[BlackFox]

I wonder what the Republican slogan will be in the next POTUS campaign? How about "No We Can't" or "Let's go back to the 1950's"?

[rstewart]

How's the change you can believe in working out for you?

That's the slogan I would use.

[gridbug]

"How's that hopey changey thing working for ya?"

[Conservator]

Here's some I'd consider:
"Less Government, More Freedom"
"Clinger of Guns & Religion"
"Back to Reality"
To answer the "Yes We Can" tag... "No You Di-int"

or maybe what we need is simply...
"Bush 3"
_{(the trilogy)}

[BlackFox]

Jun 30, 2010 15:07:17 GMT -5 Conservator said:

or maybe what we need is simply...
"Bush 3"
_{(the trilogy)}

O.k, I threw up in my mouth a little on that one.

[BlackFox]

It's a little long, but how about..

"Deficits don't matter again, let's cut taxes and fight THREE wars"!

[Conservator]

Jul 1, 2010 8:02:58 GMT -5 BlackFox said:

Jun 30, 2010 15:07:17 GMT -5 Conservator said:

or maybe what we need is simply...
"Bush 3"
_{(the trilogy)}

O.k, I threw up in my mouth a little on that one.

C'mon... they can play it up as the good brother...

[gridbug]

There's still Jeb... Maybe he can take away Junior's title of the worst!

I do get a laugh every time someone complains about "something Obama did" and it's nothing more than a Bush policy he has yet to overturn. You can't even blame Obama for not trying to close Gitmo. It's been blocked by NIMBY stateside politicians.

[LimitedRecourse]

If NIMBY has kept it open, why blame former President Bush for not closing it quickly? Where would YOU have puts hundreds/tousands of terrorists who want nothing more than to kill you and any other American?

[gridbug]

Jul 1, 2010 13:30:03 GMT -5 LimitedRecourse said:

If NIMBY has kept it open, why blame former President Bush for not closing it quickly? Where would YOU have puts hundreds/tousands of terrorists who want nothing more than to kill you and any other American?

Bush never intended to close Gitmo or release those prisoners.

I'd put them in a big barrel of Red Herrings. There are only 48 detainees in question. Obama tried to have them moved to prisons, but the NIMBY crowd is afraid they may somehow get a trial.

But then I'm so far to the left I'd like to see the US re-adopt the Geneva Convention.

[zodiacman]

Am I the only one who wants to let the detainees "escape" into Cuba proper? Payback for the Mariel boatlift!

[professorx]

Jun 30, 2010 8:38:14 GMT -5 BlackFox said:

I wonder what the Republican slogan will be in the next POTUS campaign? How about "No We Can't" or "Let's go back to the 1950's"?

Yeah, that's exactly what they want. Wasn't Byrd still wearing a hood then?

You'd have to go back to the communist reigns to see a equal re-writing of history to compare to his euolgies.

[professorx]

Jul 1, 2010 11:17:17 GMT -5 @gridbug said:

There's still Jeb... Maybe he can take away Junior's title of the worst!

I do get a laugh every time someone complains about "something Obama did" and it's nothing more than a Bush policy he has yet to overturn. You can't even blame Obama for not trying to close Gitmo. It's been blocked by NIMBY stateside politicians.

I believe that Jimmy Carter II has taken that spot for worst among all except the true-believers.

I get a laugh whenever a true-believer argues in favor of something Obama is doing now and complained about the same thing a few years ago when Bush was doing the same thing. It shows a lack of integrity, and raises the bar for hypocrisy. But keep it up, its working out great for you all, really!

[Scarlet&Gray]

Will have to pay to keep these detainees in custody for lord knows how long. I thought we wanted all Illegals out we cant's afford to take care of them. Send them back we can't afford it it's socialism.

[Conservator]

We can release them when the war on terror is over.

[professorx]

Jul 5, 2010 15:26:45 GMT -5 Scarlet&Gray said:

Will have to pay to keep these detainees in custody for lord knows how long. I thought we wanted all Illegals out we cant's afford to take care of them. Send them back we can't afford it it's socialism.

You are really grasping at straws? 1rst - How much is it worth to keep a terrorist locked up?

2nd - We want all the illegals out? They are out, they are not in the United States. Check your map or wikipedia for "Cuba".

3rd - So the conclusion to your message is that keeping them locked up is socialism?

[gridbug]

I get a laugh whenever a true-believer argues in favor of something Obama is doing now and complained about the same thing a few years ago when Bush was doing the same thing.

That probably would be funny. I'll watch for it happening so I can laugh at that too.

We can release them when the war on terror is over.

Exactly when I expect then to.

[Scarlet&Gray]

Tax payer dollars paying for room,board,clothing,medical,dental...Yep socialism. Shit or get off the pot give them a trial and get on with it. Maybe you GOPers will like this idea just kill them with no trial, hell their muslim they must be terrorists and guilty. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Now if we can just get that Obama started war with Afghanistan over with, any ideas Michael Steele ----- (crazy as hell)

[daworm]

So, in your mind, they are completely innocent and should just be let go?

I do think they should have been tried already, though. Chances of any of them having any relevant information now is practically zero. Anything they may have known is years out of date when hours make a difference.

[Scarlet&Gray]

So, in your mind, they are completely innocent and should just be let go?

NOT AT ALL. Just for the love of god and all things holy bring them to justice or send them home. I'm tired of all this bullshit.

[professorx]

Jul 6, 2010 17:25:05 GMT -5 Scarlet&Gray said:

So, in your mind, they are completely innocent and should just be let go?

NOT AT ALL. Just for the love of god and all things holy bring them to justice or send them home. I'm tired of all this bullshit.

The plight of terrorists keeps you up at night, right?

[Scarlet&Gray]

The plight of terrorists keeps you up at night, right?

No. The Black Helicopters do.

[gridbug]

Jul 6, 2010 16:02:31 GMT -5 daworm said:

So, in your mind, they are completely innocent and should just be let go?

I do think they should have been tried already, though. Chances of any of them having any relevant information now is practically zero. Anything they may have known is years out of date when hours make a difference.

I have not heard anyone say that most of them are innocent. It has already been admitted that some are but there is nowhere convenient to send them. But it is against a basic American value to leave them in prison for life without being charges with a crime or getting a trial.

Move them to prisons stateside or in other countries. Those that are afraid of them getting a trial can easily stall or block that process for many years.

[daworm]

But it is against a basic American value to leave them in prison for life without being charges with a crime or getting a trial.

Well, had they been American citizens, or captured on American soil, perhaps. Hence the dilemma. Since neither of those things is true, they don't know what to do with them. Treating them as if either of those things were true sets a dangerous precedent that could cause problems in the future.

[gridbug]

Well, had they been American citizens, or captured on American soil, perhaps.

So you are saying that such "inalienable" rights only apply to American citizens? Maybe that nobody in this country that is not a citizen is entitled to legal rights?

I am not arguing that they should have a trial or shouldn't. That is just the only reason I can come up with why the NIMBY crowd is afraid for them to be moved to stateside prisons.

[daworm]

You only read half of what I said. I also said "or ... on American soil", so the citizen thing doesn't matter. The problem is when we are not on American soil, dealing with American citizens, do we still abide by American rules? In general, I'd say we should. But it is also easy to see many situations where we could do the "right" thing, and it be the worse thing that could be done. And this is where the problem lies. If we treat these prisoners the same as we would anyone accused of a crime at home, then we may end up having to do the same with any combatants we capture from now on, and that's quite frankly unrealistic. It opens a door that we don't want to open, I don't believe. It is why the laws of warfare and domestic laws are not the same today and I don't think it is a good idea to try to homogenize them.

[gridbug]

Gitmo IS American soil, just like every American military base and embassy around the world.