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Post by el Gusano on Mar 13, 2011 19:05:09 GMT -5
While it's true that black commit far more crime than whites, it's not the race that's the factor. It's the breakdown of the traditional family. When adjusting for family conditions, crimes committed by blacks and whites are the same. However, single parent households are far more prevalent in black communities, so crime is much higher among blacks. More recent studies support this, but I cannot find them available online. The Real Root Causes of Violent Crime: The Breakdown of Marriage, Family, and Community |
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Post by ssmynkint on Mar 13, 2011 19:23:05 GMT -5
Not sure about single parent households, per se, but Re: breakdown of societal values, I agree. Keep in mind, that breakdown includes increasing intolerance and demonization of differing opinions and beliefs.
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Post by mikeydokey on Mar 13, 2011 19:45:35 GMT -5
So that explains the overwhelming high rates of black on black crimes in America? You're not even close.
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printemps
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Post by printemps on Mar 13, 2011 23:52:45 GMT -5
However, single parent households are far more prevalent in black communities, so crime is much higher among blacks. Which is the point of your post, right? The 44th president came from a single parent household and did reasonably well. Anyone suggesting kids from single parent families are screwed for life we can take this opportunity to see that. Just as being raised with a lot of help from grandparents does not make anyone a "child from a broken home." The operative word in raising children is "community." Here's an interesting statistical correlation: Criminality also occurs out of intact families where parents have little formal education, addiction, joblessness, social exclusion and a dozen other co-factors. Is a child in a family whose parents want to divorce but “stay together for the sake of the kids” more likely to do well than one whose parents split up? A few seconds on Google will tell you less educated couples are more likely to get divorced than more educated ones. You live by the cherry-picked statistic, you die by the cherry-picked statistic. |
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Post by ssmynkint on Mar 14, 2011 4:40:08 GMT -5
Need new sheets, MickeyDoo?
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Post by daworm on Mar 14, 2011 18:52:23 GMT -5
Citing exceptions does not disprove the rule, though.
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Post by mikeydokey on Mar 14, 2011 22:04:20 GMT -5
fax r fax
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printemps
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Post by printemps on Mar 14, 2011 22:07:25 GMT -5
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Post by mikeydokey on Mar 14, 2011 22:12:23 GMT -5
More people are killed with fists and feet everyday than with guns, lets blame fists and feet availabilty instead, we just gotta blame something don't we, we cannot let people take responsibility for their own actions, it's always somebody or something else's fault.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 14, 2011 22:58:29 GMT -5
We have more single parent households here than other nations, but besides that, here, about 22% of white households are, while 57% of black households are.
And since when did "extended family" become "community"?
Unless of course you're the result of the weekly block-orgy and don't know who your parents might be.
ETA: Oops. That number is from 1996. As of 2009, it's 67% of black children are born to an unwed mother.
Also, 34% of US families are now single parent, with the first runner-up being Canada with 22%.
They're not all "about the same".
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printemps
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Post by printemps on Mar 15, 2011 0:29:45 GMT -5
It's actually 72%. The rate for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent. Scandinavian countries had the highest rates; Iceland (66 percent), Sweden (55 percent), Norway (54 percent), France (50 percent), Denmark (46 percent) and the United Kingdom (44 percent) all have higher proportions of births to unmarried mothers than the United States. CDCGetting legally married to your child’s father does not mean that you're are committed to each other or to the child. All of these may be risk factors for becoming a young offender: there is legitimate debate on the topic, but it also appears that both social class and education levels have an equal effect on how likely people are to break the law. |
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Post by gridbug on Mar 15, 2011 7:07:34 GMT -5
TTIUWP
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osrb
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Post by osrb on Mar 15, 2011 7:20:47 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of people trying to blame single parents this is just a symptom of a larger problem. It has more to do with people not wanting to take responsibly for their actions. Blaming others or past transgressions for how we act or treat each other is just a cop out.
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Post by daworm on Mar 15, 2011 7:56:50 GMT -5
It isn't so much blaming the single parent, it is blaming the conditions and mentality that led a number of people to being a single parent. Not all. I know and have known some wonderful people who are and or were single parents. I can also point to many who aren't. The common thread isn't single parenthood, the common thread is poor choices, and for those whose poor choices are pervasive, both single parenthood and crime seem to go hand in hand. It isn't a "past transgression" that is the problem, it is when there is a pattern of poor choices that there is problem. Single parenthood (or more often, fathering a child and not caring for it, even without actually marrying the mother) is a symptom, not a cause.
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Post by ssmynkint on Mar 15, 2011 8:09:28 GMT -5
yes and yes.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 15, 2011 9:14:14 GMT -5
The common thread isn't single parenthood, the common thread is poor choices Bingo! Single parenthood is just an easily identifiable indicator. But the conditions and mentality,while including poor choices, go beyond simply poor choices. Much of it goes into so-called victimhood. |
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Post by Warkitty on Mar 15, 2011 9:32:02 GMT -5
So the availability of abortion should in theory reduce the number of criminals, since there are fewer mistakes being born.
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Post by daworm on Mar 15, 2011 10:30:54 GMT -5
Not sure if that applies at all, but if it does, I'd guess its a minuscule amount.
I'm not quite sure that's a deliberate, conscious act, myself. Oh, there are instigators who keep that stirred up, the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world. I don't think the average guy on the street thinks that up for themselves, but lack of critical thinking caused by lack of education can certainly keep it alive and well. Especially when there are few outspoken counters to it. For every Bill Cosby out there, there are a dozen Al Sharptons.
The big question is, what can be done about it? On the one hand, current PC thinking is all about preserving culture, on the other hand some cultures (or at least some portions) are self destructive. How can you attack the bad behavior, without attacking the culture that enables it? At first blush, education would seem to be the answer. But, as an example, I heard that in TN we spend 41 cents of every dollar on education, and with that much money, you'd think we'd get better results. The other side of the coin is punishment, but our prisons are overcrowded as it is, and the punishments tend to be light and time served short, so that isn't working out too well either.
I don't know the answers (if I did, I'd probably be rich, or at least elected). I'm not even sure if I know all of the problems (probably not). But what we are doing now isn't working and more of the same won't work any better.
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Post by harsh on Mar 15, 2011 10:39:50 GMT -5
Not sure if that applies at all, but if it does, I'd guess its a minuscule amount. I'm not quite sure that's a deliberate, conscious act, myself. Oh, there are instigators who keep that stirred up, the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world. I don't think the average guy on the street thinks that up for themselves, but lack of critical thinking caused by lack of education can certainly keep it alive and well. Especially when there are few outspoken counters to it. For every Bill Cosby out there, there are a dozen Al Sharptons. The big question is, what can be done about it? On the one hand, current PC thinking is all about preserving culture, on the other hand some cultures (or at least some portions) are self destructive. How can you attack the bad behavior, without attacking the culture that enables it? At first blush, education would seem to be the answer. But, as an example, I heard that in TN we spend 41 cents of every dollar on education, and with that much money, you'd think we'd get better results. The other side of the coin is punishment, but our prisons are overcrowded as it is, and the punishments tend to be light and time served short, so that isn't working out too well either. I don't know the answers (if I did, I'd probably be rich, or at least elected). I'm not even sure if I know all of the problems (probably not). But what we are doing now isn't working and more of the same won't work any better. I agree with what you said but with that said, money spent on education is a poor indicator of actual education. Basically, there is little, if any correlation between money spent on education and the outcome of said education. |
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Post by pompey on Mar 15, 2011 10:39:56 GMT -5
Really? That's interesting, since I hear a lot of "preserving culture" rhetoric coming from the Tea Party and other elements of the right. Are they exhibiting "PC thinking", whatever that might be?
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Post by gridbug on Mar 15, 2011 11:33:13 GMT -5
Really Worm? The last time I checked, PC was still about accepting the cultures of others. If you're interested in "preserving culture" you would be better off with the KKK and their friends.
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osrb
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Post by osrb on Mar 15, 2011 12:04:09 GMT -5
Really Worm? The last time I checked, PC was still about accepting the cultures of others. If you're interested in "preserving culture" you would be better off with the KKK and their friends. What I think worm is saying about culture is that we as a country spend more time trying to separate each other using PC thinking than trying to unite us. Just look we have all these problems with schools in many areas because the predominate language is not English and when you try to get English as the main language they scream that you are trying to take away their Cultural Identity. I saw this first hand when I lived in SoCal. We spend so much time trying to preserve other cultures that we forget our own. When we have national this or that month it does more to divide then to unite. When children get in trouble for wearing a United States flag on their shirt on Cinco de Mayo we have gone way to far in being PC. That is a Mexican thing to a U.S. thing if the people of Mexican heritage want to do something to celebrate they have every right to. On the other hand that does not mean that I have to give up my "Cultural Identity" and not wear a U.S. flag on my shirt. If anybody wants to have their Cultural Identity respected they must first respect others Cultural Identity. If someone wants to preserve their Cultural Identity that is a personal choice and has nothing do to with anybody else but them. IMO a great start on uniting people in this country would be to get rid of the hyphenations i.e. African-American, Mexican-American, Italian-American. I personalty refuse to use these because I rather unite then divide us. By looking at us a one country one people we would be a lot better off. Doing so does not mean that one has to loose their Cultural Identity just not force it on others. |
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Post by pompey on Mar 15, 2011 12:12:58 GMT -5
I personalty refuse to use these because I rather unite then divide us. So do you refer to yourself as a "Southerner"? |
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Post by gridbug on Mar 15, 2011 12:23:13 GMT -5
I have trouble believing anyone got in trouble for wearing an american flag on a shirt. I just wish some people remembered proper flag etiquette and would not do something that disrespectful in the first place.
It sounds to me that instead of political correctness that you would rather force your own Cultural Identity on others. That is certainly the opposite of PC. No wonder you dislike PC. I know if I were forced into the local concept of a Cultural Identity then I would have to give up my Sundays to go to Church and watch football. Sorry, I value my freedom and the ability to choose to avoid those things.
As for what language is spoken in schools, try teaching the Americans born here English first. I believe the basic lack of literacy in this country is much more a problem than whatever stories you may have heard of immigrants or whomever you mean.
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pompey
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Post by pompey on Mar 15, 2011 12:25:12 GMT -5
What do you think defines, "our" culture?
US Flag pins?
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Post by gridbug on Mar 15, 2011 12:41:26 GMT -5
What do you think defines, "our" culture? US Flag pins? I am from Seattle, possibly the most PC city the US has. Therefore being PC IS my Cultural Heritage. Or in the words of Lady Gaga - I was born this way. |
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Post by pompey on Mar 15, 2011 12:46:05 GMT -5
Good point. It is part of many Americans' cultural heritage to be tolerant and accepting of other cultural orientations. In fact, a strong argument can be made using the historical record that cultural diversity and the natural exchange of cultural ideas is what makes American culture so vital in the first place.
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Post by BlackFox on Mar 15, 2011 13:26:12 GMT -5
The other side of the coin is punishment, but our prisons are overcrowded as it is, and the punishments tend to be light and time served short, so that isn't working out too well either. We could stop making so many things crimes, but that's another discussion. |
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Post by osrb on Mar 15, 2011 13:33:58 GMT -5
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Post by gridbug on Mar 15, 2011 14:02:01 GMT -5
Hmmm - any chance they might they have been trying to be disruptive? Either way, just because you found one example does not define a trend for the country. The day the tornado hit Red Bank, the RBHS principal let the children outside when the storms were in the area. Do you suppose that might have been a bad judgement call on the part of one person, or should we close all schools because they are not safe for the children?
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