goomba
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Straight Shooter
I am the Security God of Conventions. I am everywhere, but nowhere to be found.
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Post by goomba on Jul 22, 2011 6:34:59 GMT -5
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duke
Senior Forumite
Mr. Tepid
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Post by duke on Jul 22, 2011 10:18:05 GMT -5
Cop acting professionally? Absolutely, at least beyond the idiocy and unlawful Terry stop to harass anyone who is acting legally.
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harsh
Full Member
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Post by harsh on Jul 22, 2011 14:08:14 GMT -5
The cop was great but the guy filming should have had ID on him and he should have given the cop his information when asked. There is no reason to make the cops job any harder than it already is.
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goomba
Global Moderator
Straight Shooter
I am the Security God of Conventions. I am everywhere, but nowhere to be found.
Posts: 2,403
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Post by goomba on Jul 22, 2011 17:42:57 GMT -5
the guy that got stopped was being an absolute dick, and should have been nicer simply with the way the officer was dealing with him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2011 17:49:55 GMT -5
That's the way I see it, Goomba.
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Police Moderator
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On The Job and Tangled Up In Blue
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Post by Police Moderator on Jul 22, 2011 19:58:47 GMT -5
Yea, but we are trained to respond to dickness with utmost professionalism as we should.
Seriously, look how I have always dealt with Duke and Harsh! Even though we all know that dicks can't deal with reason and logic, I try to rise above dickDukedom!
Most of us do it the same way this guy did it.
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duke
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Mr. Tepid
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Post by duke on Jul 23, 2011 12:21:36 GMT -5
the guy that got stopped was being an absolute dick, and should have been nicer simply with the way the officer was dealing with him. Do we as citizens have a right to be allowed to go about our lawful business secure in the knowledge that we are free from harassment by LE? If LE is free to harass the legally open carry person for ID, then anyone walking the street or operating a vehicle can be stopped for ID and or any other official papers. Remember hearing the phrase 'your papers please?" From where? This demand to check for loaded and ID without articulable reasonable suspicion is nothing short of rape. Rape of the lawful citizens’ right to be allowed to go about their lawful business free of interference by a government thug regardless of whether or not the thug / rapist has a smile or not. Must every rape victim acquiesce to the demands of the rapist, with a smile no less, so long as the rapist smiles? Even if the rapist is wearing a loaded gun?
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goomba
Global Moderator
Straight Shooter
I am the Security God of Conventions. I am everywhere, but nowhere to be found.
Posts: 2,403
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Post by goomba on Jul 23, 2011 12:52:38 GMT -5
Duke, I posted this video as a counterpoint to the canton ohio PD video that I have days before you posted it here.
This section is the PM's area, but I'll Lock this thread if you continue to bash the cop in this video. he was extremely professional In dealing with the open carry advocate who filmed the encounter.
If you wish to play your game, please do it the canto Ohio thread.
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Post by Warkitty on Jul 23, 2011 13:43:56 GMT -5
You would actually compare being asked for identification to being raped? Dude, you are so far off on that one it's painful. Seriously? That's like saying it's the same thing as murder if you're told "no entrance."
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duke
Senior Forumite
Mr. Tepid
Posts: 3,706
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Post by duke on Jul 23, 2011 15:00:32 GMT -5
You would actually compare being asked for identification to being raped? Dude, you are so far off on that one it's painful. Seriously? That's like saying it's the same thing as murder if you're told "no entrance." Two things; 1. Consider rape in the context in which it was posted. World English Dictionary rape1 (reɪp) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide] —n 1. See also statutory rape the offence of forcing a person, esp a woman, to submit to sexual intercourse against that person's will 2. the act of despoiling a country in warfare; rapine 3. any violation or abuse: the rape of justice4. archaic abduction: the rape of the Sabine women —vb 5. to commit rape upon (a person) 6. (also intr) to plunder or despoil (a place) in war 7. archaic to carry off by force; abduct [C14: from Latin rapere to seize] dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape The Rape of the Sabine Women is an episode in the legendary history of Rome in which the first generation of Roman men acquired wives for themselves from the neighboring Sabine families. The English word "rape" is a conventional translation of Latin raptio, which in this context means "abduction" rather than its prevalent modern meaning of sexual violation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women 2. Your comparison of rape to murder is indeed the apparent view of many now and in the past. Like murder, there have been many men who have paid with their lives for a conviction of rape, justified or not.
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duke
Senior Forumite
Mr. Tepid
Posts: 3,706
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Post by duke on Jul 23, 2011 16:45:25 GMT -5
Duke, I posted this video as a counterpoint to the canton ohio PD video that I have days before you posted it here. This section is the PM's area, but I'll Lock this thread if you continue to bash the cop in this video. he was extremely unprofessional In dealing with the open carry advocate who filmed the encounter. If you wish to play your game, please do it the canto Ohio thread. I believe that you intended to say extremely professional rather than un professional. If my assumption is correct I will again agree. See my first post. Nowhere have I denigrated the professionalism of the officer in the video. Indeed I have stated the opposite. My 2nd post directly addressed your post claiming the activist was a dickhead. By presenting valid arguments. Nowhere did I call you, nor the officer in the video degrading names for an opposing, though unsupported, point of view. Neither professionalism nor simply following requests or orders by a superior justifies a violation of the law by anyone including the very professional officer in the video you posted. Following orders does not excuse this officer any more than that excuse did for those persons brought to trial at Nuremberg. The manner of the violation of law, may make the violation more palatable but no less illegal. From what I can find, California has no stop and identify law that justifies this officer’s request. Indeed the activist refused to identify without consequences. On what basis can anyone claim that a citizen must waive a civil right or be called a dickhead? If it is you view that a citizen must comply with illegal orders by a cop, read JOHN BAD ELK v. U S, 177 U.S. 529 (1900) never overturned. laws.findlaw.com/us/177/529.html Since you failed to notice that my second post alluded to the fact that a violation of the law is still a violation because it is the “small” violations that allow the preverbal camel’s nose under the edge of the tent. The camel's nose is a metaphor for a situation where permitting some small undesirable situation will allow gradual and unavoidable worsening. A typical usage is this, from U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in 1958: This bill and the foregoing remarks of the majority remind me of an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." If adopted, the legislation will mark the inception of aid, supervision, and ultimately control of education in this country by the federal authorities.[1] According to Geoffrey Nunberg, the image entered the English language in the middle of the 19th century.[2] An early example is a fable printed in 1858 in which an Arab miller allows a camel to stick its nose into his bedroom, then other parts of its body, until the camel is entirely inside and refuses to leave.[3] Lydia Sigourney wrote another version, a widely reprinted poem for children, in which the camel enters a shop because the workman does not forbid it at any stage.[4] Now will you put up a cognitive argument, abandon the discussion, or take the coward’s way out by abusing your privileges as moderator?
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goomba
Global Moderator
Straight Shooter
I am the Security God of Conventions. I am everywhere, but nowhere to be found.
Posts: 2,403
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Post by goomba on Jul 24, 2011 1:11:08 GMT -5
Duke, Yes I meant professional.
I expressed my opinion that the guy was being a dickhead. The officer was professional during the stop. no the individual recording the video did not have to identify himself. I simply stated my opinion and you chime in with rape victim and papers please. You tend to make posts that only quote law and are worded to be antagonistic. You could have simply stated that its kinda hard to not sound like a dick head when your exercising your rights in this type of situation. and I probably wouldn't have bothered to even reply to you.
Your reply simply hit a nerve, that at the time I found to be offensive. and I now remember that I should not feed the trolls.
I do not need a lesson in law, when I am stating my opinion. It is my opinion.
If I abuse my moderator status, the other moderators and admin here will deal with me as they see fit. I may not be as articulate, or as patient with you as the other moderators here, but I'll be damned if I am a coward.
Again, I posted this video as a counterpoint to the canton ohio video. And I would simply prefer for you to go bashing the cops in the canton thread, not in this one.
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