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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 8, 2012 8:59:37 GMT -5
Sheriff Hammond’s Leadership Fail
by Alex Teach, Columnist
March 8, 2012
Policing, in and of itself, is a no-win situation. It’s a literal never-ending battle with never-ending hazards and never-ending blame. The rewards themselves are far and few between, but the greatest two have always been the self-satisfaction that keeps us going and the sense of brotherhood only those in combat, both domestic and abroad, can appreciate. If that last sentence doesn’t make sense, then it’s nothing I can explain, but I can give an analogy when it comes to the quality of leadership of the men and women who serve in the situations I’ve described above. George Armstrong Custer was one of the youngest generals in the Union Army during the Civil War, known for being brash, intelligent and personally courageous. He also, however, had the highest casualty rate of any in the Union Army because he is now recognized as a publicity-seeking huckster who was too ambitious for his own good and reckless with his men. Our current sheriff is no Custer. Jim Hammond is the first to be concerned with the safety of his deputies, but the names of leaders who forsake their men in the name of convenience are less well-known to us, so extreme examples are necessary. Would Hammond pit 267 men up against several thousand Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapaho warriors? NO. ( Continued)
I've heard Sheriff Hammond both praised and reviled in his job so I'm not sure what sort of Sheriff he will be known for ten years from now. I can say that if I ran a business like he's running the Sheriff's department I would have a very difficult time keeping good employees. My counsel to the Sheriff's Deputies is to quit and find employment where someone will appreciate you and treat you fairly. |
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Post by Half-Tard on Mar 8, 2012 16:06:37 GMT -5
Right to work state..Quit if you don't like it. Times are tough we got to cut spending..That's the mantra nowadays right?
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Post by pictureman on Mar 8, 2012 20:17:55 GMT -5
Yeah! Let's bring back Jerry Pitts!
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Post by daworm on Mar 8, 2012 20:26:22 GMT -5
What's the issue? Does any non-government job require everyone at the same level get the same pay? Never happened anywhere I've ever worked, but then again it's been a while since I worked anywhere other than where I work now.
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Post by professorx on Mar 10, 2012 0:55:51 GMT -5
Sheriff Hammond’s Leadership Fail
by Alex Teach, Columnist
March 8, 2012
I can say that if I ran a business like he's running the Sheriff's department I would have a very difficult time keeping good employees. My counsel to the Sheriff's Deputies is to quit and find employment where someone will appreciate you and treat you fairly. Most private businesses have wild pay disparities. I am not sure he understands this concept "As it turns out, paying people more than one another for doing the same job for the same responsibility is “illegal” when done outside of the rules of a now-forgotten statute called “The Civil Rights Act of 1963.” The whole issue is being in a protective class, not merely someone else makes a different wage. He makes the danger argument, but that would be an hard argument to make. "The more dangerous the service, the higher the pay". I am not sure that the Seals, Delta, Force Recon types make substantially more than people in their same grade or rank. I am not sure how dangerous Donald Trump or Bill Gates' jobs are. It seems like the pay is in line with other similar departments in the area. It seems like most make around $45,000. That's not bad money in Chattanooga. According to salary surveys "Sergeants in the United States earned a national average salary of $39,000 per year". "A June 2011 Salary Expert report shows that average salaries for line sergeants fluctuate across different geographies. In the U.S., sergeants working in New York City reported earning an average salary of $49,125 yearly. Phoenix sergeants averaged $40,785 per year. In Orlando, sergeants reported an average salary of $41,359 per year. Sergeants employed in Charlotte, Miami and Los Angeles averaged salaries of $45,278, $42,476 and $40,415 respectively. Sergeants in Houston averaged salaries on par with New York City's Manhattan borough, earning $48,922 per year." Danger really doesn't set pay, it is what others doing the same job make... |
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Post by Tsavodiner on Mar 13, 2012 2:56:02 GMT -5
"Ex"
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Alex Teach
Moderator
*THAT GUY*
Apostle of Humility
Posts: 30
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Post by Alex Teach on Mar 14, 2012 0:17:45 GMT -5
*Nice.
....As for the current CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER, we shall see. My story was obviously FICTION. Can you hear me, Major Tom?
This message board doesn't argue against all cops just...quitting. How sickening.
Not the thought of cops just quitting; the thought that men and women that took on such a job could just...walk away so easily and contritely. Sick.
We are the ones that have the biggest glimpse as to what would happen if we DID just quit. Who could live with that? Sadness.... Sadness.
We are owned. Not whole, but in part, we are owned. Welcome...to the Machine.
Where have you been? It's alright. We KNOW where you have BEEN.
Welcome...to the Machine.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 14, 2012 6:27:08 GMT -5
Then you are negotiating from a position of absolutely no strength at all. The courts may give an occasional victory as in this lawsuit but you will continue to be underpaid and shat upon by the government that hired you at every turn. Your only other option is to get honorable people elected who are willing to compensate the city and county employees properly.
Let's see, you tried that with a sheriff a few years back, elected one of your own to turn things around. Where is that guy now?
Quit. It's the only hammer you have.
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Post by staffsgtsbunny on Mar 14, 2012 9:26:33 GMT -5
Quitting isn't that easy.
I'm not in Chattanooga, but I have worked very hard to get where I am in Atlanta, and I love what I do. It's nothing I can really explain, but to get there and then quit because someone says it's the only hammer I have? Sorry, Justin. There has to be a better remedy.
Cops are a rare breed, as you well know. I have yet to be in a department that doesn't have screwed up administration in one form or fashion. But if all the officers just up and quit because they wanted better.....well, what purpose would that serve. It's not in good cops to just quit.
If it were, we'd quit when we got fed up with the people's crap on the side of the road yelling at us because it's our fault they were speeding, or it's our fault their family member just beat the crap out of them, or it's our fault their child is splattered on the road.
There are better reasons to walk away from the job than one man and politics.
Stand together. THAT is a hammer.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 14, 2012 10:13:17 GMT -5
What has standing together gotten Chattanooga area LE so far? Standing together will only get you anything when you stand together to walk out the door. Now that will get you something.
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Post by professorx on Mar 14, 2012 20:28:19 GMT -5
Then you are negotiating from a position of absolutely no strength at all. The courts may give an occasional victory as in this lawsuit but you will continue to be underpaid and shat upon by the government that hired you at every turn. Your only other option is to get honorable people elected who are willing to compensate the city and county employees properly. Let's see, you tried that with a sheriff a few years back, elected one of your own to turn things around. Where is that guy now? Quit. It's the only hammer you have. Its funny to read both extremes on this thread. One side is that cops are irreplacable warriors akin to the calvary, and the other side where all employees are super-star NBA type free agents and can easily move from employment to employment. "Call my manager!!!" :-) |
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Post by LimitedRecourse on Mar 15, 2012 16:51:48 GMT -5
Justin Thyme is more committed to "just quit" than I am to "weed is bad for you."
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Post by Half-Tard on Mar 15, 2012 17:07:50 GMT -5
Weed is good Pat Robertson gods right hand man said so. He said today blow jobs and cunnilingus are fine too!! I love this place u call heaven
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Post by professorx on Mar 15, 2012 19:03:38 GMT -5
Justin Thyme is more committed to "just quit" than I am to "weed is bad for you." In a shrinking job market everyone should be glad to have any kind of employment. "Its the new reality" that was voted in on a national level. Sgt Staff Bunny says she (assumption) works in Georgia, if she does and works for a sheriff's department there, ask her how bad county law enforcement is in GA. Lots of days off without pay, people who leave are not replaced, etc. If she makes $45,000, 45K in Atlanta is not the same as here. Arguing for more money will not gain much public sympathy right now. I am all for public safety, medical and teachers making more money, but the market will not support it right now... When people fight a battle destined to lose, they kind of look like whiners. An old timer once told me "Recognizing that you are merely a civil servant like any other is a sign of maturity in law enforcement. We are nothing above and beyond"... If there is anything "special" about the job, the rewards are not monetary. I would suppose the same would be true of any decent profession. The question is when a cop realizes he is merely a civil servant and not half james bond and half batman, he can either turn into a sluggish blob, stop lifting weights and let his ass weld itself to his desk chair or patrol vehicle seat OR he could continue to fight the good fight. To break it down in a quirky and semi-humorous summary "Welcome to the Jungle". Only stoners listen to Pink Floyd and I hate stoners. :-) |
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TNBear
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,285
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Post by TNBear on Mar 15, 2012 19:23:33 GMT -5
My dear Professor,
You are so wrong on so many levels it boggles my poor limited brain.
That you seem to hold Law Enforcement officers equal to someone occupying a window at the Tag & Title Office is so grossly demeaning to LE it is beyond any consideration. Do you have an occupation which could put you into the line of fire at anytime? If so, let us hear the details.
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Post by professorx on Mar 15, 2012 20:14:59 GMT -5
My dear Professor, You are so wrong on so many levels it boggles my poor limited brain. That you seem to hold Law Enforcement officers equal to someone occupying a window at the Tag & Title Office is so grossly demeaning to LE it is beyond any consideration. Do you have an occupation which could put you into the line of fire at anytime? If so, let us hear the details. I work at a little place called Noneyourgoddamnbusiness. The quote about civil servants was from a officer that worked at a department for 14 years. I saw the plaques, medals, etc., that he earned. He even had a permanent SWAT tattoo on his arm. When he made a mistake he was unceremoniously let go just like a court clerk. Again when it is all said and done any government employee is just a civil servant. Its not the way things should be, it is the way they are. Again, it is only a sign of maturity as an officer. The new guys who are full of piss and vinegar will say "I cannot be fucked over, I have made huge arrests this year. I'm golden... I am an integral part of this team." Famous last words... When they get pulled from the team and are assigned to something that is "bullshit" they falsely believe there is some sort of recourse for this injustice. Should I go on? I've seen variations on this theme over and over in real life. Recognizing that you are a civil servant is not a condemnation, but a key to happiness. You want fair, go to a carnival. You want a friend, buy a dog. A dangerous job, people with bars and rank have ended more careers than criminals with guns. Welcome to the Jungle, again. I don't agree with any of this, I am just a realist. Does this unboggle you brain? |
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Alex Teach
Moderator
*THAT GUY*
Apostle of Humility
Posts: 30
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Post by Alex Teach on Mar 15, 2012 23:21:22 GMT -5
Some (JiT) say we should quit, when we know good and well other cops may be killed as a result, and citizens almost certainly WILL die, as a result. Human lives aren't 'bargaining chips.'
Others (ProfX) say we should be grateful to have jobs, and remain silent.
Those in the trenches just look on, wondering how either think they could survive.
Allow me to eliminate the suspense: I won't QUIT as a "bargaining chip". Ever. Holding the public trust and safety sets me apart form you sick fucks that think I would do otherwise.
I quit? People get hurt. PERIOD. That's why the politicians know they have us, and that's what the poor in the trenches count on.
I just make things known before the less scrupulous quit despite the moral implications and results.
And that, of course, is what makes ME stupid. And the rest of us that stick around to do the Job, to keep those people breathing...literally.
CPR takes work, but some of you think that we should quit it in-progress, and walk away to hold out for more deserving pay.
That's why so few others understand what it is to be a Cop (or a soldier).
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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 16, 2012 7:59:26 GMT -5
Maybe I won't get you, Teach, but there are others listening to me and know this, I make sense to them. It may not be today or next week but they are out there waiting until they have just had enough and then.... they are gone. Don't believe me? Look at the attrition rate so far. There will come a tipping point where the city will have to give in and make your job safer and more rewarding or the city will fall to ruin.
When that happens you will thank me, but thanks is not what I'm looking for. Sometimes you have to destroy what you love to save it. Saving the city for the long term is what I am looking for.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Mar 16, 2012 16:18:36 GMT -5
I can see JiT in the hold of the Titanic, gaily opening the scuppers to admit freezing seawater, howling with glee: "THIS'LL FIX IT!!!".
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Post by Tsavodiner on Mar 16, 2012 16:22:18 GMT -5
My dear Professor, You are so wrong on so many levels it boggles my poor limited brain. That you seem to hold Law Enforcement officers equal to someone occupying a window at the Tag & Title Office is so grossly demeaning to LE it is beyond any consideration. Do you have an occupation which could put you into the line of fire at anytime? If so, let us hear the details. I work at a little place called Noneyourgoddamnbusiness. The quote about civil servants was from a officer that worked at a department for 14 years. I saw the plaques, medals, etc., that he earned. He even had a permanent SWAT tattoo on his arm. When he made a mistake he was unceremoniously let go just like a court clerk. Again when it is all said and done any government employee is just a civil servant. Its not the way things should be, it is the way they are. Again, it is only a sign of maturity as an officer. The new guys who are full of piss and vinegar will say "I cannot be fucked over, I have made huge arrests this year. I'm golden... I am an integral part of this team." Famous last words... When they get pulled from the team and are assigned to something that is "bullshit" they falsely believe there is some sort of recourse for this injustice. Should I go on? I've seen variations on this theme over and over in real life. Recognizing that you are a civil servant is not a condemnation, but a key to happiness. You want fair, go to a carnival. You want a friend, buy a dog. A dangerous job, people with bars and rank have ended more careers than criminals with guns. Welcome to the Jungle, again. I don't agree with any of this, I am just a realist. Does this unboggle you brain? The most valuable education I ever got was from Bruce Geller, producer of the sixties hit series "Mission: IMPOSSIBLE", whose preamble featured the liturgy: "If you are captured or killed, the Secretary will disavow ANY knowledge of your actions. " Good Luck, Jim. |
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Post by professorx on Mar 16, 2012 20:38:44 GMT -5
Others (ProfX) say we should be grateful to have jobs, and remain silent. Who could you complain to (as individuals or as a group) to make a difference? |
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Post by professorx on Mar 16, 2012 20:42:46 GMT -5
The most valuable education I ever got was from Bruce Geller, producer of the sixties hit series "Mission: IMPOSSIBLE", whose preamble featured the liturgy: "If you are captured or killed, the Secretary will disavow ANY knowledge of your actions. " Good Luck, Jim. You take my crude ideas and distill them into a precise, more entertaining and clear headed fashion. When it comes to articulation I'm Frankenstein, you are Oscar Wilde. |
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Post by pepper on Mar 17, 2012 15:10:58 GMT -5
Well the Sergeant’s pay is not the only salary problem. Our wonderful process of pay increase or rather lack thereof has been exacerbated by the comp-ratio system.
The poor schmucks who have been loyal enough to stick around the HCSO for 10 or more years get next to nothing if there is a pay increase while the newest employees get the lion’s share of any increase. You see the comp-ratio takes from the long timers and gives to the new comers! Great for the newcomers now but stick around 10 years and see where you are!
If there is an approved 3% increase this year everyone should get it regardless. This time around if the comp-ratio hits the old-timers again…… stand by for the latest law suit!
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Post by professorx on Mar 18, 2012 15:09:06 GMT -5
Well the Sergeant’s pay is not the only salary problem. Our wonderful process of pay increase or rather lack thereof has been exacerbated by the comp-ratio system. The poor schmucks who have been loyal enough to stick around the HCSO for 10 or more years get next to nothing if there is a pay increase while the newest employees get the lion’s share of any increase. You see the comp-ratio takes from the long timers and gives to the new comers! Great for the newcomers now but stick around 10 years and see where you are! If there is an approved 3% increase this year everyone should get it regardless. This time around if the comp-ratio hits the old-timers again…… stand by for the latest law suit! Wage compression is nothing unique to law enforcement. When the only raises people get are cost of living adjustments it raises the current officer's pay and the generally pay attributed to the rank. A LOT of places have done away with the cost of living adjustments, have furloughed officers, and are not hiring new ones. SO, a officer is making less and doing the jobs of what 2 or more officers used to do... Is this a smart idea in a public safety job? Of course not, but in the minds of administrators, a civil servant is a civil servant. |
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Alex Teach
Moderator
*THAT GUY*
Apostle of Humility
Posts: 30
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Post by Alex Teach on Mar 20, 2012 23:34:18 GMT -5
And if City cops had still been receiving COLA's for the last 4 years, you still wouldn't have a valid point in my professional opinion.
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Post by jeffphillips1 on Apr 5, 2012 9:09:09 GMT -5
Here is a post on the Pulse that one of the officers posted:
Leadership
Very well written article. Thank you for taking the time to write this on the behalf of our department since most are scared of speaking up due to the fear of further unfair treatment and furtherance of unfair treatment. I have taken the liberty to research the pay issue within my own division to find it is also seriously flawed. I truely hope the Sheriff will see the writing on the wall and as you suggested he will either Step up and do the right thing or Step Out allowing someone who has a true interest for the people of this department to fix the long self serving issues.
Posted by Brian Ashburn March 08, 2012 07:22:40
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Ringleman#5
Forumite
The first in his family born without a tail.
Posts: 1,139
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Post by Ringleman#5 on Apr 8, 2012 18:06:23 GMT -5
As I drove through a less than ideal portion of town this morning, (Easter) I wondered about the breed of men who choose to 'attempt' to hold all this together.
Mental illness crossed my mind.
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Post by Tsavodiner on Apr 9, 2012 19:23:21 GMT -5
A train crossed mine, and a little elephant with wings was tooting the whistle, with a stork stoking the firebox, but I rolled out of the way just in time for the hippos to cross in the caboose, they wearing little tutus and carrying parasols....
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Post by Tsavodiner on Jun 10, 2012 22:15:52 GMT -5
Keep
Your
Eyes
Peeled
(bump)
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Post by LimitedRecourse on Jun 11, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5
And
Your
Bananas
Shut
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