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Post by gridbug on Feb 28, 2012 12:19:33 GMT -5
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Post by Justin Thyme on Feb 28, 2012 13:43:19 GMT -5
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Post by Half-Tard on Feb 28, 2012 14:34:28 GMT -5
Really it has more to do with worldwide consumption is up, Speculation is driving this price up, based on the current actions by Iran. US consumption is at it's lowest since 1997. So it's not a supply vs. demand problem.
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Post by el Gusano on Feb 28, 2012 16:06:39 GMT -5
Umm... that would specifically be a supply vs demand problem; the world demands more, so the prices go higher. Santorum said nothing about the causes of rising fuel prices, btw, although if the current occupant of the White House would get out of the way and let them build the pipeline, thousands of jobs would be created and more fuel would become available.
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Post by Half-Tard on Feb 28, 2012 16:40:02 GMT -5
BULLSHIT
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TNBear
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,285
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Post by TNBear on Feb 28, 2012 20:38:11 GMT -5
I will agree with Aceman on this one. The thousands of jobs allegedly to be created by the pipeline are a myth, and the oil will go overseas.
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Post by el Gusano on Feb 28, 2012 23:55:24 GMT -5
If there will be no jobs created, just who, praytell, will build it and operate it?
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JC
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Post by JC on Feb 29, 2012 0:12:58 GMT -5
If there will be no jobs created, just who, praytell, will build it and operate it? Oil fairies and gremlins, apparently. |
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Post by creekcat62 on Feb 29, 2012 12:50:24 GMT -5
Really it has more to do with worldwide consumption is up, Speculation is driving this price up, based on the current actions by Iran. US consumption is at it's lowest since 1997. So it's not a supply vs. demand problem. Would this have been your position when Bush was president? |
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Post by LimitedRecourse on Feb 29, 2012 15:39:52 GMT -5
Santorum will garner at least half, but possibly MOST of the delegates from Michigan. You really should do your homework before spewing left-wing propaganda.
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Post by Half-Tard on Feb 29, 2012 15:41:52 GMT -5
I'll admit I wasn't as well versed in oil pricing while President Bush was in office, I blamed him for the gas prices about in 2004 9/11 was over for 3 years and that excuse was getting old. After Bush's experience in the oil business was a disaster, running three oil businesses he had in the ground. So him causing high prices made sense then.
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Feb 29, 2012 20:43:07 GMT -5
I did not say that no jobs would be created. I do say that there will not be thousands of jobs created and the vast majority of those that are will be history as soon as it is built, and the oil will still go overseas.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 1, 2012 11:48:42 GMT -5
The construction of the pipeline will require several thousand workers. The operation of the pipeline will require fewer than 100. The oil will require a hundred or so more refinery workers to refine. Spring is upon us so I'm on my bicycle for the next few months and will have no personal need for more gasoline.
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osrb
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Post by osrb on Mar 1, 2012 14:10:01 GMT -5
Santorum like Perry has always just been a punch line.
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Post by Conservator on Mar 1, 2012 14:14:15 GMT -5
I did not say that no jobs would be created. I do say that there will not be thousands of jobs created and the vast majority of those that are will be history as soon as it is built, and the oil will still go overseas. Temporary, yes. But I'm guessing that project may take longer than 2 weeks to build. Hey, if it was built at the same pace the gov. builds roads it could have taken 13 years to build... Not to mention the refinery jobs JT mentioned. You sound very biased in your argument. Not agreeing to build that pipeline was a huge mistake. |
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Post by gridbug on Mar 1, 2012 15:35:37 GMT -5
The project has not been cancelled yet - it was delayed for further analysis
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BlackFox
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Stay thirsty my friends
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Post by BlackFox on Mar 1, 2012 15:44:22 GMT -5
Blackfox Compromise:
Lets start immediately getting the infrastructure in place to extract as much of the oil, coal, and natural gas as possible without just totally destroying the enviroment. As soon as it's ready, nationalize our oil!
At the same time, the government will fund a Manhatten style project geared towards development of the next generation of power. No matter what, humans can't stay on oil forever, and we need to be the ones that discover what's next. Cold fusion, whatever.
Tap that gas.
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Mar 1, 2012 20:45:48 GMT -5
My esteemed Conservator-where did I say anything about two weeks? Justin estimates the total number of permanent jobs to be on the close order of two hundred, big deal. And the result will still be sold overseas to profit the oil companies.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 1, 2012 21:51:08 GMT -5
Santorum is punch line, but Obama is a gag gift.
And just how long do you think it will take to build that pipeline? It took three years to build the Alaska pipeline, and it still employees many, many people. Oil in Alaska supports approximately 110,000 jobs.
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Post by Half-Tard on Mar 2, 2012 1:26:11 GMT -5
Oil in Alaska key word. This oil is in Canada we'll take it in a jiffy. But will just be plugging leaks and such. Now should we as the Alaskans do grant every citizen in every state that the pipeline runs. through a welfare type payout.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 2, 2012 11:02:47 GMT -5
If those states were smart, they would take the PUBLIC land and put it to use instead of forcing every citizen to pay for it. Every state could benefit from PUBLIC land.
In Tennessee, you charge taxes to every citizen (except those who choose not to work) to pay for public land. In Alaska, they lease out portions of that public land and share it among all the public.
If you own a vacant house, you can just let it sit there and keep paying for all the maintenance, or you can put it to use. Which is better?
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Mar 3, 2012 6:52:02 GMT -5
As there is no income tax in Tennessee even those who do not work are paying taxes every time they buy food, smokes, beer, gas or anything, and these taxes are not limited to "citizens". If you do know of a place where taxes are limited to citizens with jobs only, please advise.
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Post by Justin Thyme on Mar 3, 2012 8:35:16 GMT -5
As there is no income tax in Tennessee even those who do not work are paying taxes every time they buy food, smokes, beer, gas or anything, and these taxes are not limited to "citizens". If you do know of a place where taxes are limited to citizens with jobs only, please advise. That's kind of an ideal form of taxation. It requires all citizens to support their government services. And Tennessee does have an income tax, just not on earned income and it gives a large exemption on unearned income. |
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 3, 2012 10:38:47 GMT -5
Those freeloaders aren't putting anything into the system. You take money out of the system, from those who have earned, skim off a large percentage to pay for those who process the payments to the freeloaders who haven't earned it, and then put a small portion of it back into taxes, you have gained nothing, just put a drag on the system.
That's like saying that if you take a million gallons of water out of the lake and put 100,000 gallons back into the lake that you've added water to the lake.
Those who don't work still aren't paying taxes and are a net drain when you redistribute income to them from the producers.
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Post by Half-Tard on Mar 3, 2012 15:52:16 GMT -5
The U.S. produced more oil in 2010 than it has since 2003. More gas has been produced in each of Obama’s three years in office than at any time since 1936. Coal mining is on the rebound. The radioactive ore that fuels nuclear power plants has come out of the ground faster every year in his presidency. Production from renewables, such as hydroelectric power, solar, wind and biofuels, is higher than ever before. Active U.S. oil rigs increased 22.5 percent last year and the oil and gas extraction industry added 25,000 jobs, up 12 percent. timesfreepress.com/news/2012/mar/03/fact-check-you-cant-have-it-all-sorry/?breakingnews |
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Mar 3, 2012 21:19:26 GMT -5
JT, I guess you are referring to the Hall tax, not a tax that applies to the vast majority of my fellow "working class heroes".
Gus, I reiterate that anyone in the State of Tennessee pays the same amount of state taxes unless they have income subject to the Hall tax. To baldly state that people who do not work do not pay taxes is a lie. I am not saying they are not an economic drag, just that they do pay the same percentage of tax as most of us.
The other problem is people of some means who choose to travel to Georgia to make large purchases and avoid Tennessee sales tax. As a former small business owner who lost sales for the same reason I find this totally despicable.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 4, 2012 2:21:24 GMT -5
In reality, if they earn no money, they pay no taxes. That tax money is paid by the person who earned, though the middleman leeches.
But, that's not what I said: What I said is they aren't putting anything into the system. They are producing nothing. They are nothing but an economic drag.
And unless they are incapable of doing any sort of work, they should be cut off. If they are capable of working, let them work. If we're going to do it through a government program, put them to work doing something for their money.
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JC
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Post by JC on Mar 4, 2012 4:43:05 GMT -5
And unless they are incapable of doing any sort of work, they should be cut off. If they were born that way, then they would die. Jesus would have said "fuck them leaches", anyway, right? If they were not born that way, they paid into the system and deserve to draw form it. Just remember your statement if you ever become unable to work. That's why we have such a problem now with assistance abuse and government inefficiency now. Someone had the bright idea of putting people on welfare to work with giving them government jobs. Project living baby mommas on food stamps get put to work giving food stamps to their project living baby momma friends. Meanwhile, the ones truly in need of assistance get shafted. The others get put to work in areas of other public service jobs. Like those found at DoS (Drivers License Testing Centers) Public Works, etc... |
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TNBear
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Post by TNBear on Mar 4, 2012 9:52:33 GMT -5
OK, so the government on some level, community, state or federal should create jobs programs making itself larger and creating bureaucracy to oversee these programs? It will be interesting to see whether or not this ends up costing more than food stamps and welfare do.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 4, 2012 14:44:12 GMT -5
And unless they are incapable of doing any sort of work, they should be cut off. If they were born that way, then they would die. Jesus would have said "fuck them leaches", anyway, right? Reading comprehension problems? I guess so. I highlighted the pertinent part that you chose to ignore. and yes, Jesus said that if you won't work you won't eat. Know how God commands to feed the poor? Leave the corners of your fields unharvested so they can go in and WORK and harvest for themselves and eat. Someone had the bright idea of putting people on welfare to work with giving them government jobs. How about letting them pick up trash in their neighborhoods? Someone has to pick up all the leftover lottery tickets and condoms. |
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