That had to hurt

[Half-Tard]

This day and age of video cameras etc..Why do people think they can get away with this stuff. I'm dumbfounded no indictment. But get the check book ready.







Chattanooga Police Chief Bobby Dodd called the police beating of federal inmate Adam Tatum one of the worst cases he has seen in his 25-year career.

“Unfortunately we’re in a situation, in an occupation that’s very volatile, sometimes,” Dodd said in a news conference this morning. “Sometimes split-second decisions can end your career and actually put you in jail.

“But our department, the city of Chattanooga, Chattanooga Police Department, we do not condone this activity. Nor will it be tolerated.”








www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/feb/28/chattanooga-police-attorneys-ex-officers-respond-v/

[Fredo]

Every goon in that room as well as their immediate supervisors belong in jail... of course that will never happen. Personally, I'm stunned that they bore any greater consequences than sensitivity training. People like that make fine SS officers.

[Police Moderator]

Chattanooga Police Chief Bobby Dodd: Officers' actions excessive (with videos)
by Beth Burger

Two officers who were fired by Chattanooga Police Chief Bobby Dodd after brutally beating federal inmate Adam Tatum until his legs were broken could get their jobs back when they go before an administrative law judge.

Dodd says he'll present a case in hopes of making sure that doesn't happen.

"I'll lay the facts out and hopefully that person will look at this and say, 'It's excessive. It's outside the policies. And these officers do not need to be on the streets.' I personally would not subject the citizens of Chattanooga to these two officers and the type of action they took," Dodd told reporters during a news conference Thursday morning.

But attorneys for the two fired police officers defended their clients, Sean Emmer and Adam Cooley.

"Chattanooga officers are trained to never assume that a suspect has only one weapon. This city has seen officers killed in the line of duty after de-escalating force only to learn that the criminal has a second weapon," according to a statement from attorneys Stevie Phillips and Bryan Hoss.

Read more: times free press

[Police Moderator]

Every goon in that room as well as their immediate supervisors belong in jail... of course that will never happen. Personally, I'm stunned that they bore any greater consequences than sensitivity training. People like that make fine SS officers.

I, personally, cannot see how anyone can justify the actions of these former officers.

It seems many people fail to realize the real irony presented here.

Many of those demanding the prosecution of the officers are the same bleeding hearts that have forced upon us the case law, sentencing guidelines and due process on crack that allows criminals to work the system to their advantage resulting in plea bargains that mimic reducing Hitler's criminal march through Europe down to 'Simple Trespass' with a 'time served' sentence.

When a society coddles criminals, don't be a bitchin' when former LE criminals work the system, with top-of-the-line legal counsel, just like those criminals they formerly arrested have done for decades.

Unless, of course, one is demanding that one specific segment of society be treated differently, in the courts of law, as any other segment of society.

Therefore; we can't have it both ways. If you are a bleeding heart for one criminal, your heart must bleed for all criminals.

We've sown the wind, and we are reaping the whirlwind.

Pretty simple.

[JC]

The beating was excessive but I really didn't see anything "wrong" with it per se.
I guess those cops were supposed to just stand there and wait patiently for the thug to handcuff himself?

[elf]

The guy was high on drugs. The video does not show what happened before or the asshole said to the policemen. I am on their side.

[Fredo]

Many of those demanding the prosecution of the officers are the same bleeding hearts that have forced upon us the case law, sentencing guidelines and due process on crack that allows criminals to work the system to their advantage resulting in plea bargains that mimic reducing Hitler's criminal march through Europe down to 'Simple Trespass' with a 'time served' sentence.

When a society coddles criminals, don't be a bitchin' when former LE criminals work the system, with top-of-the-line legal counsel, just like those criminals they formerly arrested have done for decades.

Fair enough. For the casual observer, like myself and most other citizens, we've seen officers behave spectacularly badly and bear no meaningful consequences for their actions. Fortunately, the current chief seems to have the right idea about this sort of thing. Freeman Cooper would have probably pinned a medal on them.

That said, as an admitted casual observer of the process, I find it very troubling that there were about 30 cops standing around guy with two broken legs and not one of them seemed to find anything out of the ordinary. 5 guys piled on top of a clearly restrained suspect hardly drew a glance from the passing officers. This tells regular citizens that this is such a commonplace event that the coppers don't think twice about seeing someone get the crap kicked out of him.

That's the kind of thing that draws animosity from the public and endangers lives. Without public support, 300 cops cannot maintain even the vaguest hope of maintaining law and order.

[sarahm]

"What the asshole said" is irelevant. You really think it's o.k. for the Police to break an inmate's legs because he said something ugly to them? Really? Granted, the guy was a pain, but, one can see from the video that those officers had several opportunities to hand cuff him. They beat the shit out of him because they could, not because they had to..I agree with Fredo, these guys are nothing more than Goons and should be kicked to curb.

[elf]

Maybe if he had less shit in him and was sober, the cops wouldn't have beaten him. Unless you were there, first hand, and saw and heard everything, leave the cops alone. Let me ask you something. If your daughter, younger sister, wife, or mother was being attacked by the drugged idiot - wouldn't you really want those police officers there?? I would.

[Fredo]

Wanting revenge is not the same thing as wanting justice. That's why we don't let angry parents preside over trials.

[JC]

You don't have to hit me but once with a baton before I'll put my hands behind my back.

Course, I'm just that way. YMMV, as did this thug

[elf]

I guess I am so much into support for our policemen because the gang murder I saw as a child on the way from the hospital after my Father died. When you see something like that, you can understand why police officers can lose politeness in order to restore safety. And, until you see something like that, leave the officers that pledge to save your life alone.

[Police Moderator]

When you see something like that, you can understand why police officers can lose politeness in order to restore safety. And, until you see something like that, leave the officers that pledge to save your life alone.

Gotta disagree with you on that one, elf. I sincerely appreciate your unerring support of your local law enforcement based on your life experiences, but there is a line that simply must not be crossed. Ever.

If that line is found to be crossed, there should be hell to pay. There should be a certain responsibility an actor has for his/her actions, or inactions. It goes like this, "Do the crime, do the time."

Most of us cops have been preaching this simple concept for decades, yet the dukedavidians, sentencing commissions and ivory tower cubicle monkeys have been fighting that concept, and winning the argument, for decades.

It would be arrogant, and ignorant, of me to judge, second-guess and publicly excoriate these officers, and their actions/in-actions, as I was not there.

I do not know all the facts. I interviewed no witnesses. I interrogated none of the other cops on the scene that night. I do not know the back story. I only read what a discredited lawyer had to say about it biased by his own self interest.

I only saw a video and what I saw disturbed me greatly.

Since I am admittedly ignorant of pretty much 99.9% of the facts, I am dependent that a true professional, who is actually in possession of 99.9% of the facts, will make the right decision for me.

Chief Dodd made the decision, based on his experience, training and with knowledge of 99.9% of the available facts of this case to terminate the officers in question. He also had the facts presented to the Hamilton County Grand Jury who declined to 'True Bill' it. The fact it was not 'True Billed' is not on him.

And since I have first hand, decades old knowledge of the innate integrity, honesty, credibility and valor of Chief Dodd, I am fully willing to back his decision, despite the fact I know little of the facts.

That being said, I am sickened that me and Fredo¹ agree on any damn thing. I am sickened that two cops have had their careers ended due to some obvious and serious lack of judgment, during the heat of things, that resulted in the life-threatening serious injury to one who should be treated with the same rights that all of the rest us pretty much take for granted. I am sickened that other cops (Who are supposed to watch each other's back and protect each other from those that would harm us, including ourselves) did nothing towards the interest of doing the right thing.

I further am sickened that Mr. Tatum chose the only lawyer in the Southeastern US, the World, the known universe, who could, single-yellow-legal-pad-handedly f**k up his entire slam dunk case².

These former LEOs get their jobs back? You can blame Mademoiselle Duke, an alleged ex-cop (Who was so incompetent as a cop that he had to step down a rung and become a lawyer) and the rest of the bleeding heart liberals.

¹He's finally come to a forum where more than 5 people a week will read his stuff!

²Unfortunately, for Mr. Tatum, incompetent counsel don't hold much weight in Federal Court of Appeals.

[whatthe84]

I finally watched the video of this incident. I had heard about it for a while but really was not in a hurry to see it. I imagined what it would be and I was not shocked at what I saw really. Of course the video looked bad but anytime you are dealing with suspects that are not compliant and you have to physically deal with them it can look bad. The officers could have and should have began with a little more verbal orders than they did. I know they did give him orders to put his hands behind his back but pretty quickly went to the old school choke hold and then took him to the ground. Both the officers had the bald head and the WWE look which on video looks bad. For the most part this look is useful and beneficial under normal conditions but when you have a non compliant individual who is not intimidated and something like we see on this video takes place that whole look works against the officers. The comments we see on here about them being goons reflects that. Once on the ground the officers began trying to cuff the suspect and ordering him to put his hands behind his back and he did not comply. They went to their asp and began striking him as trained on the legs and arms attempting to force compliance to no avail. They subsequently used pepper spray, and the taser all were ineffective. I did not see the initial officers strike the suspect in a manner that would not be in accordance with their training from what I could see. Once the additional officers arrived I saw and heard an officer say I am going to have to hit him in the face and he proceeded to strike him repeatedly in the face and then they were able to cuff him. Once again this video looks horrible but the approach to dealing with a non compliant suspect who is not affected by pain, pepper spray or taser presents a dilemma for LE. The training each officer receives in the academy IE non lethal defensive tactics such as wrist locks will be effective on normal people and if you are proficient with the techniques. The problem is to be really good at using them you must train constantly and the vast majority of officers don't train enough to be efficient. During the training the practice is half speed with compliant partners who don't wish to be injured and just want to get through the training. On the street the suspects don't react the same as the training setting. The leg strikes look like crap on video it appears you are just beating the suspect like an animal but in fact you may be be following your training to the letter. The training received in the academy is designed for two purposes one is to prepare the officers for the job and to protect the agency and city, county, state from law suits. Unfortunately for the officers the latter is most important to the agency. I cannot defend the video it is what it is and each viewer will see it and decide what happened for themselves. As a former Police Officer I have dealt with suspects who feel no pain who will not comply and all the techniques and non lethal options available don't work. Fortunately for me I was able with help to restrain them without seriously hurting them and no video was made of the event. In many ways the only way to deal with an individual like this is to approach them as you would a wild animal. I know this approach would be met with all sorts of outrage but the taser in some ways is moving toward that approach but as we saw here the taser did not work. The suspect here was never really aggressive towards the officers as I could see, he was resisting but not overly aggressive towards LE. This will not be good for the officers. In the end this suspect who apparently had committed an agg assault on a victim prior to LE arrival will cash a large check from the city, not as large as Robin Flores' check though, and will be just fine. The officers will be targeted by the Fed's and it is reasonable to think will be put in prison. If you parse out the video most of the incident was done in accordance with their training. The larger question is how do you deal with non compliant suspects who feels no pain? Maybe you use a net like you would use on a wild animal just a thought.

[Fredo]

That being said, I am sickened that me and Fredo agree on any damn thing.

Now we agree on two things. I'm equally disturbed by this bizarre event but don't expect a repeat occurrence. You blind hogs rarely find more than one acorn.

[elf]

I was driving down a four lane road in Buffalo, NY. My Father had just died. All of a sudden 15 or 20 gang member approached our car. In front of me I saw them change directions and attack 15 or 20 glang members with clubs, knives, baseball bats

[elf]

and fists. Do you have any idea of what its like to see five, six, seven people killed? Sorry, but when the police arrived and started shooting - the gang members left. I don't know how many were dead. I don't care. The police escorted my family out of town. Do you know what that was like? If you do, then you can understand why an officer may "lose it every once in awhile" that does not make him bad. Let's get back to thanking policemen. Let's get back to appreciating the sacrifices they make. And, lets get back to making the criminal pay.

[elf]

Oh, Fredo - go back to your own column. It has nothing to do with revenge. Its about safety for the public and the innocent.

[Fredo]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that the guy with the multiple broken bones doesn't feel too safe and neither do the people who witnessed this absurdity.

A populace that feels like it has something to fear from the police makes both the populace and the police less safe.

[Police Moderator]

Now we agree on two things. I'm equally disturbed by this bizarre event but don't expect a repeat occurrence. You blind hogs rarely find more than one acorn.

Pigs, fredo, pigs, dammit......... Hogs only got one nut. ;D

Source: times free press

Armageddon is upon us....... I've agreed, within 5 business days, with fredo, blackfox and Clay Bennett (Specifically, the cartoon above as me agreeing with pretty much any other would bring a forecast of 100% chance of fire and brimstone by early afternoon, Monday, 03-04-13.)

My interpretation of the meaning of this specific cartoon is that one, or two, wrong LEOs can beat rest of us righteous LEOs to a bloody, broken pulp and we could be burnt to a crisp (With ample amounts of napalm, graciously provided from some in the media, thrown on) by the actions of those very few, who used to be amongst us.

Thankfully, with leaders like Chief Dodd, the rest of us rank-and-file types will turn a certain media prognosticated 'defeat' into a victory. We always have done so. We are basically a reflection of the citizens we serve and their support is the unreported rule rather than a sensationalized exception.

Now, there is big media advertised inspired 'mass meeting' protesting this exception, claiming it is the rule.

I've been to way too many meetings, marches and demonstrations of support for LEOKAs (Funerals for Law Enforcement Officers Killed in Action) to let this 'meeting' affect the way I, and 99.9% of the folks I work with, do things.

Thank you fredo, blackfox and Clay Bennett for getting my point across.

[wheels]

Mar 2, 2013 19:30:14 GMT -5 elf said:

and fists. Do you have any idea of what its like to see five, six, seven people killed? Sorry, but when the police arrived and started shooting - the gang members left. I don't know how many were dead. I don't care. The police escorted my family out of town. Do you know what that was like? If you do, then you can understand why an officer may "lose it every once in awhile" that does not make him bad. Let's get back to thanking policemen. Let's get back to appreciating the sacrifices they make. And, lets get back to making the criminal pay.

i'm sorry, but an officer who may "lose it every once in awhile" does not need to be wearing a badge. i also disagree with the notion that i am unqualified to make such a statement b/c i haven't witnessed a gang fight where people were killed. officers are trained for these situations. if they are prone to "lose it" then they cannot fulfill the requirement of their job.

these officers are representative of all LEO's. they are bad apples and bad apples need to be removed.

[Police Moderator]

i'm sorry, but an officer who may "lose it every once in awhile" does not need to be wearing a badge.

No need to apologize for stating the obvious, wheels. There are no 'mulligans' in this line of work.

i also disagree with the notion that i am unqualified to make such a statement b/c i haven't witnessed a gang fight where people were killed.

One does not have to press one's hand to a heated stove eye to know that stove eyes can be dangerously hot.

officers are trained for these situations. if they are prone to "lose it" then they cannot fulfill the requirement of their job.

Correct.

these officers are representative of all LEO's. they are bad apples and bad apples need to be removed.

These former officers are NOT representative of all LEOs and they have been removed.

[elf]

Until you see 15 or 20 people brutally murdered by rival gangs - do not blame the police officers. That was worse than war. It is time to forgive the police and punish the criminals and killers. They were there for me and my family. They got us out alive. It was later stated on the news that drugs and prostitution were involved. Seeing that first hand, not sitting in a rocker watching TV, it was true life at the time. I admit that every once in awhile an officer might make a mistake. But when two, two office are there, please ask what happened before. I really think you would not believe it. Because, for some reason, you think any criminal deserves a mink coat and champagne. Why is Charles Manson still alive at the tax payers expense of twice or three times the money it cost to educate a child? Think about it.

[wheels]

Mar 4, 2013 18:28:53 GMT -5 Police Moderator said:

these officers are representative of all LEO's. they are bad apples and bad apples need to be removed.

These former officers are NOT representative of all LEOs and they have been removed.

oops! huge error on my part. i meant to say that they are NOT representative of all LEO's.

[wheels]

Mar 4, 2013 19:51:41 GMT -5 elf said:

Until you see 15 or 20 people brutally murdered by rival gangs - do not blame the police officers. That was worse than war. It is time to forgive the police and punish the criminals and killers. They were there for me and my family. They got us out alive. It was later stated on the news that drugs and prostitution were involved. Seeing that first hand, not sitting in a rocker watching TV, it was true life at the time. I admit that every once in awhile an officer might make a mistake. But when two, two office are there, please ask what happened before. I really think you would not believe it. Because, for some reason, you think any criminal deserves a mink coat and champagne. Why is Charles Manson still alive at the tax payers expense of twice or three times the money it cost to educate a child? Think about it.

i don't know if the above was directed toward me, but if so, you are entirely incorrect. i'm guessing this is due to my error in a prior post. i don't believe all, most or many officers are bad. i was only stating that when a bad officer is exposed, he needs to be relieved of his duties.

as for criminals, i don't know where you came up with the mink coat hogwash. i hold LEO's in much higher regard than criminals. if anything, i think our legal system is too lax. however, my disdain for criminals does not mean i want them physically beaten. it doesn't take an expert investigator to see that the officers in the video above crossed the line. even the police chief agrees that these officers crossed the line.

[Police Moderator]

oops! huge error on my part. i meant to say that they are NOT representative of all LEO's.

Clear on it, wheels. Thanks for the clarification!