Study: Religion is Good for Kids

[CMF Newsman]

Kids with religious parents are better behaved and adjusted than other children, according to a new study that is the first to look at the effects of religion on young child development.

The conflict that arises when parents regularly argue over their faith at home, however, has the opposite effect.

John Bartkowski, a Mississippi State University sociologist and his colleagues asked the parents and teachers of more than 16,000 kids, most of them first-graders, to rate how much self control they believed the kids had, how often they exhibited poor or unhappy behavior and how well they respected and worked with their peers.

The researchers compared these scores to how frequently the children’s parents said they attended worship services, talked about religion with their child and argued abut religion in the home.

story

[stray]

This isn't a valid study. This isn't a study of the validity of religion...it's a study of 'structure' vs. 'conflict' in a child-rearing environment.

I'd venture to say that if both parents were atheists, agnostics, etc, and harmony was maintained without the violent debate that inevitably happens when you put a jesus hugger in a room with someone of intelligence, the same positive results would be seen.

[RuneDeer]

These are first-graders. Most little kids want to be "good," given some direction. What happens when they become teenagers? I've seen plenty of kids from "good Christian homes" go way off the scale, with the two most common reactions being "We never saw that coming!" and "Where did we go wrong?"

[Dreamwebber]

Would have to agree with Stray....although the fear of the floor opening up and below a lake of fire I would fall into if I didn't eat my peas did scare the bejesus out of me at 5.

BTW, I actually did think hell was literally just a few layers under the earth lol

[fullphaser]

On the same note I could say telling kids to do nice things makes them better people. That is the early message of most religions before the literal interpretations of the religious text.

[Justin Thyme]

stray said:

This isn't a valid study. This isn't a study of the validity of religion...it's a study of 'structure' vs. 'conflict' in a child-rearing environment.

I'd venture to say that if both parents were atheists, agnostics, etc, and harmony was maintained without the violent debate that inevitably happens when you put a jesus hugger in a room with someone of intelligence, the same positive results would be seen.

If both parents were atheist or agnostic and were involved in a community that gave the same sort of positive support that a good church gives you might be right. Without a positive community involvement, though, you are missing part of what the study was measuring.

[Felix]

Regarding the effect of irreligious parents rather than Christian, Justin remarked:

Without a positive community involvement, though,
you are missing part of what the study was measuring.

...and that is the core of organized religion, a group of people united by common beliefs, with some sort of structure. Possibly a "church" of agnostics committed to a moral and ethical creed might qualify. But some feeling of worth in the community is crucial.

[TNBear]

No, the core of organized religion is getting money from the "believers" to support those who are allegedly showing them "the truth".
I am no Socialist, but one of the truest things Karl Mark wrote was "religion is the opiate of the people".

[Justin Thyme]

tnbear said:

No, the core of organized religion is getting money from the "believers" to support .....

No doubt there are those preachers out there who are primarily interested in maintaining a good cash flow through the business office of their church and no doubt there are those preachers out there who only have an interest in fleecing the flock. However, I can not agree that taking the money is the core of organized religion. I've had too many good experiences in different churches to ever believe that.

[el Gusano]

I've had too many experiences in the average assembly to ever believe that.

Most churches are quite poor.

But, the exceptions are the ones that stand out, and perception is powerful.

[Jay]

While family relations certainly count, I think religion can certainly help someone be a better person as well..

[tcrashfx]

Karl Mark wrote was "religion is the opiate of the people"

What's so wrong about a little "Opiate"?

In moderation, of course!

[TNBear]

JT, I am not castigating individual congregations, it's the "senior management", so to speak, of religious empires who rake in the dollars. That's why I use the phrase "organized religion".

Crash, speaking as a person with some experience with "opiates" of different forms, to paraphrase Robert A. Heinlein in Stranger in a Strange Land; I'd rather see him smoking marijuana than involved with religion.
Another quote from one of those Voltaires or another: Moderation in all things, including moderation.

[gridbug]

Most first graders still believe Santa & Jesus are real. Check them again after puberty hits.

[Justin Thyme]

gridbug said:

Most first graders still believe Santa & Jesus are real. Check them again after puberty hits.

Okay, I'll forgo the argument, for the time being, of whether or not Jesus was an actual historical person. Instead let's look, instead, at the myths of Santa and Jesus and decide whether or not these are two myths which represent ideals we should be teaching our children.

Santa is a representation of giving. Once a year he looks down his list of naughty and nice and goes about giving his whole years work effort to all the good little children in hopes that they will also learn from his example and give of their own work effort to others who are deserving.

Jesus gave us an example of right living and love of God and fellow man. He showed by example that in order to live a fulfilled life we must forgive all those who have done us wrong and love them instead of seeking out retribution from them. He has shown us that by loving people we can in turn love ourselves. He has also shown that God extends that same reltionship to us that we are forgiven for all our bad deeds as long as we are repentant of those deeds and are striving to live righteously. If we mess up, that's okay, we are still forgiven just as we are to forgive those who have wronged us. There is no need for us to feel guilt as long as we are repentant for the wrongs we have done.

Neither seem like bad ideals to me.

[gridbug]

Okay, I'll forgo the argument, for the time being

Yeah - that argument would achieve nothing but tired fingers.

I am just suggesting that the gullibility of the young would be a factor in the effectiveness of such stories. If you believe there is a monster in your closet then it is easier to believe an invisible giant waits to smite you if you are bad.

[RuneDeer]

IMO, the best teaching you can get is by example. Plenty of parents talk Bible 24/7 but send a very different message to their kids via their behavior. Kids will be intimidated at age 6, cynical by age 16. I think if I saw parents behaving in the way that Jesus has most often been described (other than walking on water, etc.) I'd be much more receptive to Scriptural teachings.

[gridbug]

But Runedeer, parents teaching good values by example is good parenting, not religion. Religion's primary purpose is and always has been social control. If good parenting were more prevalent then maybe fewer people would need to be scared of invisible giants to make them behave.

[RuneDeer]

gridbug said:

But Runedeer, parents teaching good values by example is good parenting, not religion. Religion's primary purpose is and always has been social control. If good parenting were more prevalent then maybe fewer people would need to be scared of invisible giants to make them behave.

Grid,
I cannot disagree with thee.

[TNBear]

Grid, I cannot agree with thee more.

[Longshot! [ Saint ]]

While the athiests and agnostics are 'raging' over the injustices of organized religion and the 'religious' are raging over the perils of disobedience, I think all miss the point at hand that I see as the common denominator:

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the specifics or mechanics, Religious families have better balanced and more organized children than not because the structure teaches them what the others do not have: Respect. Respect for others, and more importantly, for themselves.

I deal with society as a whole, and within my own extended family. Those brought up with a basis of religion did not turn out as zealots or close minded simpletons; the majority grew up as decent respectful people, respectful of themselves and others. Those without religion have no respect for anything, particularly themselves, and it shows.

Those that were religious WERE more likely to be involved with communities (churches, etc.). Helping folks, in general. Those NOT religious were NOT likely to be involved in communities because there IS to communion amongst the athiests other than rousing dinner conversation--with themseloves--and therefore no 'community' per se to be involved in. They focused on themselves, their needs, and not the needs of others and became selfish assholes, and folks...a group of selfish assholes does not a community make.


I have not set foot in a church for my own needs/benifit since 1987 when I decided I did not need it to make me a better person...it does not 'make' you a better person, but it gives you TOOLS in the form of other people to learn to develop personal growth. Reading clever and obscure authors does not substitute this, nor make your individualism more important than caring for other people. It makes you focus on yourself, and when that's your life, it's a shallow one with no boundaries for how you treat other people. And when that is the 'norm'...society itself fails because of autocanibalization.


You don't need to be religious or a believer in anything to be better, BUT...you are not less by the same token, which self-rightous assholes on BOTH sides of the fence fail to realize. And those raised in communal structures tend to be more viable human beings, period.


It all comes down to respect for others, and respect for yourself. Being an island unto yourself does not do this, and I stake my life on this belief. Be agnostic or athiestic as SHIT, but for Somethings Sake, please involve your kids with others, and teach them value in others. They will not be able to respect themselves otherwise, and without that...there is no life.


____


At what point, I wonder, did 'structure' become such a bad thing? When did 'studying to get into college', 'to get a degree', 'to get a good job', 'to buy a home', 'to raise a good family' become so bad? Not everyone has to subscribe to this, but after you get the Tyler Durden bullshit out of the way, what's it to YOU if someone DOES subscribe to it? Wouldn't being a Holier Than Thou Prick be just as bad as someone who was happy living in Suburbia with the wife, dog, and 2.3 kids to the same person judging such?

Does being a proud athiest at age 50 living in a Duplex working at a convenience store at $10 an hour smelling like grease and funk with kids living with you at age 30 sharing weed with you on the weekends seem like such a good trade off to being forced to church as a kid and striving to earn a good living and raising your kids to be FUNCTIONAL ADULTS instead of their FRIENDS instead? I mean, seriously. When does the Teenage Angst of being 'anti establishment/anti religion' for the simple sake of 'being a rebel' ever wear off? And when do those people realize it was all an excuse to accept SETTLING for shit and copping out, in general?

I don't GIVE a shit what you think of the validity of Jesus Christ or Buddah means. It does not indicate open thinking to me; it indicates you NEVER STOPPED BEING A REBELLIOUS 16 YEAR OLD and instead of being Intellectually Expanded, you are Intellectually Retarded. LET IT GO, because if you're right...IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Just don't teach your kids to 'settle' essentially, because you don't want to try anything yourself.


...But that's just me.

[daworm]

Those without religion have no respect for anything, particularly themselves, and it shows.

Well, I might as well just kill myself now and get it over with, then...

[Justin Thyme]

Worm, if I'm not mistaken you were raised with religion and received the structure Ls! is talking about during your formative years. I've even read statements by you praising that aspect of religion. I don't think you need to kill yourself just yet.

[daworm]

Raised with it? Not exactly, we were never church goers, and Dad as far as I can tell doesn't care one way or the other about it (he never went to church, and never, ever talks about religion.) Mom would go occasionally, and drag me with her sometimes when I was very small. Her father took me when I was very young, but I don't remember any of that, all I remember him taking me to was the barber shop. I went to one VBS with some neighbors kids, mostly for the activities, and my elementary school had a weekly Bible assembly. I completely and totally gave up on religion at about age 12. So there was some influence, sure, but minimal.

Most of what made me fly right and sit up straight was a very (sometimes overly) liberal dose of ass whippings, not fear of going to hell. I had much more, um, immediate, fears than hell.

[snarkalicious]

Longshot and Grid have it exactly right-the key is to teach your children to RESPECT others. I am the mother of 5, 3 of them are "raised", the other 2 are ages 9 and 6 but they all have been brought up to be kind and respectful of other people. We aren't church goers and neither are my kids (my second child calls herself an atheist, the other two are agnostic) but we taught them give back to the community and I think THAT it is they key to good kids. Organized religion teaches that, but in my experience it also teaches some bad things (bigotry especially)

[stray]

stray said:

This isn't a valid study. This isn't a study of the validity of religion...it's a study of 'structure' vs. 'conflict' in a child-rearing environment.

I'd venture to say that if both parents were atheists, agnostics, etc, and harmony was maintained without the violent debate that inevitably happens when you put a jesus hugger in a room with someone of intelligence, the same positive results would be seen.

Brilliant!

Oh...never mind.