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Post by stray on May 17, 2007 6:27:32 GMT -5
Wholesale bipartisan buttplugging of our once-great country... www.redstate.com/stories/featured_stories/reid_mcconnell_confirm_amnesty_deal_is_nearSenate Democrats and Republicans are working feverishly with the White House to put the finishing touches on an immigration proposal that could be announced later today or tomorrow. The deal would give illegal aliens living in the United States amnesty, according to confidential sources. It would also allow illegal aliens to bring their parents, spouses and children into the United States. Multiple sources on Capitol Hill with knowledge of the proposal said Sen. Teddy Kennedy (D.-Mass.) has been able to extract significant concessions from Republicans. The critical part of the deal is a lengthy section that spells out the provisions related to “Z” visas -- or what my sources described as the “Amnesty Title” of the bill. The “Z” visas would be broken down into three categories as follows: Z-1 -- Illegal alien present and working in the United States up to January 1, 2007 Z-2 -- Parents and spouses of illegal aliens qualifying under the Z-1 category Z-3 -- Children of illegal aliens qualifying under the Z-1 category Read on ... One section of the proposal grants these “Z” non-immigrants four-year visas for an indefinite period of time. These visas would be given to people not currently in the United States if they are related to a current illegal worker. Sources indicate that these aliens, along with their dependents, would be allowed to legally remain in the United States under certain conditions for an indefinite period of time, even if they chose not to pursue the so called “pathway to citizenship.” The burden of proof would be low for illegal aliens to prove that they were continually illegally present in United States. This provision would reward the illegal alien for proving continual illegal presence and illegal employment in the United States with a “Z” visa. This provision in the Kennedy deal, approved by some Republicans, is clearly amnesty under any definition, according to immigration experts whom I consulted. The proposal would require illegal immigrants to pay a fine to apply for the “Z” visa, but despite that penalty, conservatives are likely characterize this deal as a major sell out to Kennedy and his pro-amnesty allies. |
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Post by stray on May 18, 2007 19:51:58 GMT -5
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Post by gridbug on May 18, 2007 20:10:15 GMT -5
You know if we invaded and annexed Mexico this would be a non-issue. They seem to want to be Amerikans already, lets bring Amerika to them.
If we are going to run around invading soverign nations we may as well get something for it for a change.
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Post by stray on May 18, 2007 20:16:23 GMT -5
You realize the incredible strain this will put on our already over-burdened social welfare system, already pretty much bankrupt Social Security system, and our wonderous job market.
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Post by Justin Thyme on May 18, 2007 20:27:08 GMT -5
If we had just refused to sign the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and marched on through Mexico City we wouldn't have this problem right now and all these people would have a stable government and economy and wouldn't have to sneak across our border.
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Post by gridbug on May 18, 2007 20:31:02 GMT -5
Nothing stopping us now... We can take on another country!
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Post by plasticone on May 18, 2007 23:19:51 GMT -5
Fortunately it looks like it may have a very tough time passing in the house.
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Post by legaltender on May 19, 2007 18:40:52 GMT -5
I'd like to see numbers on "the incredible strain this will put on our already over-burdened social welfare system."
The director of the Brain Tumor Surgery Program at Johns Hopkins University hopped a fence from Mexico at 19 to become a farm worker. A story he told in 1999 when he delivered the commencement address at Harvard Medical School, where he graduated cum laude and became an American citizen.
None of which means we shouldn’t secure our borders. But the economy can more easily absorb those who don’t think birthright entitles them to a living.
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Post by stray on May 19, 2007 18:59:25 GMT -5
I'm sure there are cases where a very expensive diamond ring will be lost in a landfill...but 99.99999% of the rest of the shit there is trash.
A success story can -always- be found...and it's usually always the exception to the rule.
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Post by legaltender on May 19, 2007 19:55:53 GMT -5
Ellis Island was pretty much a trash heap. Who came here with more than what they carried in? The main difference is they were all processed and a few with diseases sent back.
I favor a secure border policy, but can tolerate only so much grandstanding while undocumented workers manicure Mitt Romney’s lawn.
China has well over 100 million migrant workers, and its economy is growing 10 times faster than ours. Clearly, migrant workers aren’t an impediment to economic growth.
I agree, it's a sad state of affairs that if enough people break the law it is no longer a law. But stiffening the penalties for employers and seizing businesses and assets, just like Rico prosecutions, would send some Republicans to jail. That's a catalyst for compromise.
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Post by Justin Thyme on May 20, 2007 7:18:38 GMT -5
I've always felt that we make it too dificult to get into this country legally. For the life of me I don't understand why someone who has an invitation from a citizen in this country and who isn't a terrorist, violent criminal or a real and is not carrying some dangerous, communicable disease can't stay and work in this country for as long as they have an invitation to do so.
Don't get me wrong. I think that anyone here illegally needs to be sent home and that be grounds for never allowing them access to our country again. We have to know who is crossing our borders. However, all of us here are here due to past family members looking to leave their country of origin to find a better life. We can't make that impossible for others to do also.
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Post by stray on May 20, 2007 7:32:19 GMT -5
!!!!!
Too difficult?
Have you looked around the world? Our 'standards' for legal immigration are some of the most lax on the PLANET.
We simply cannot throw open the borders the way you are suggesting and say 'come one, come all...here's your social security card.' Our economy would never be able to sustain itself.
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Kordax
Senior Forumite
Hank Rearden
Posts: 2,537
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Post by Kordax on May 20, 2007 10:32:01 GMT -5
One long needed correction the new law will fix: Z visas will entitle enterlopers to in-state college tuition rates -- look for massive new college recruiting campaigns in Spanish....
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Post by legaltender on May 20, 2007 10:34:45 GMT -5
This firestorm isn't going to be settled on economic terms. It's more emotion and nativist despair.
Besides, who knows what the economy can sustain? The steady flow of immigrants provides a more flexible labor force that keeps industries growing while delivering lower prices to American consumers. The losers are less-skilled native-born workers lacking a high-school education. They're forced to compete for jobs with immigrants whose wages fall as a result.
Another mixed bag is the social services burden. Most who come here do so in the prime of their working lives and pay into the system for decades. Some obviously never pay, but some leave without collecting benefits having had their checks docked for years. Does anyone think we'd have health care and public education turn-arounds if we just deported the illegals?
If you argue their contribution is not enough to compensate for what they use, I'd probably agree. But again, this isn't going to be decided on economic issues. We're pounding sand realizing we can't control everything.
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Post by legaltender on May 20, 2007 10:55:37 GMT -5
Republicans like Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar get much of the credit for that.
Remember the December raid at the Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in Colorado in which around 260 workers were rounded up for working under assumed identities? Only 18 of those workers have actually been charged. No company managers were charged. Swift last week revised upward its estimate of the cost of the 5-plant raid to $45 million to $50 million for the fiscal year ending May 27.
What insanity. We don't have the courage of our own convictions. If you're going to stage a symbolic enforcement, make sure the whole system is behind you.
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Post by Justin Thyme on May 20, 2007 12:10:09 GMT -5
Have you looked around the world? Our 'standards' for legal immigration are some of the most lax on the PLANET. I'm not one to compare our standards to those of any other nation. We should make our own policy only considering what is right and good rather than what other countries do. I'm an American, dammit. If I want to invite someone from another country to my country that's what I should be able to do and no government bureucrat or politician should ever try to tell me different. |
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Post by traveler on May 21, 2007 5:59:20 GMT -5
LT, what are you referring to? What did they do?
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Post by legaltender on May 21, 2007 8:47:48 GMT -5
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Post by stray on May 21, 2007 8:56:33 GMT -5
JT: Wow....what an incredibly short-sighted and ill-advised view to have. It's your right to have it, though....
Have you forgotten that ALL rules and laws must be worded and planned with the 'lowest common denominator' in mind? Sure...you might be a level-headed individual that would only use your 'Americanizing' power for good....but distribute 'invite power' to the masses?
Wow.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of American's can't even get their own fiscal responsibilities and nutrition requirements right...what the hell makes you think they're smart enough to have 'foreign policy' in their hands?
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Post by traveler on May 21, 2007 9:41:28 GMT -5
Jeezzz...
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Felix
Global Moderator
Tepid One
Happy Morning
Posts: 4,137
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Post by Felix on May 21, 2007 9:52:47 GMT -5
In response to Justin's endorsing open immigration, Stray asserted:
The fact of the matter is that the majority of American's can't
even get their own fiscal responsibilities and nutrition
requirements right...what the hell makes you think they're
smart enough to have 'foreign policy' in their hands?
Applying the logic of that assertion to all voters, the country is doomed, is that what you are saying, Stray? And not because of immigration, but because according to you the majority of people in this country are incapable of excercising freedom responsibly, in their own lives, or in public duties such as voting.
I realize that hyperbole is the native speech of message boards, especially those dealing with important subjects such as politics and religion, but, damn! *preparing draught of hemlock*
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Post by daworm on May 21, 2007 9:58:50 GMT -5
Sorry, with legal status will come legal restrictions, such as that pesky minimum wage and OSHA safety standards. Those lower prices will be history.
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Post by Justin Thyme on May 21, 2007 10:31:55 GMT -5
Dang, Marvell, you read right where I was going to with that.
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Post by stray on May 21, 2007 11:09:39 GMT -5
In its present form, with the present desire of 'bread and circuses' by the populace, then yes...I do indeed believe the country is ultimately doomed. History has a way of repeating itself.
Never before has our general population been as uninformed, nonsensical, careless, and irresponsible...and I don't see it getting better any time soon.
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