Sheriff's Officers Under Investigation

[tcrashfx]

Three Involved in Killing of Suspect

Nathan Frick

May 8, 2007 - 1:43AM

Sheriff's deputies are responsible for killing a man after they say he charged them with a knife. According to Deputy Chief Allen Branum, just after 10 p.m. Monday, the Sheriff's Department got a call about a stolen Jeep. An officer tried to stop the Jeep and the driver did pull over before taking off toward Dolly Pond Road. Shortly after that, it turned up a private, dead end drive. Branum says by then, the backup officers were on the scene and the car stopped again. The officers ordered the driver to get out. Branum says the man had a knife in his hand and charged an officer.

The officer then shot him while he was just a few feet away. He was pronounced dead on the scene. "The officer did indicate he felt threatened" Branum said."The suspect had a knife. We had veteran officers there, they had been on the job for quite sometime."

Three officers were on the scene and Chief Deputy Branum didn't know what would be next for them. He thought they would be reassigned or put on leave.

"We hate the loss of life but these officers are trained to go home at end of shift, and do what's necessary," Branum said. "Deadly force was necessary in this case".

www.newschannel9.com/articles/branum_12050___article.html/officers_officer.html

[xterragirl]

Heard the gunshots but must say all was kept pretty quiet. I never heard many sirens before or after and the dogs didn't go crazy.

[tcrashfx]

Dolly Pond Road Shooting
Submitted by Tiffany Roy on May 8, 2007 - 6:45am. News

New information this morning on a late night shooting in Northern Hamilton County involving three Hamilton County deputies...

Just after 10:00 last night...the sheriff's department received a call of a possible stolen Jeep.

Deputies soon spotted the vehicle on Dolly Pond Road and attempted to stop the Jeep.

The stolen vehicle came to a stop at a dead end street.

wdef.com/node/4870

[Longshot! [ Saint ]]

Crash, you have my number. Give it to the guys if they need a porch, an ear, and solid advice; the next 48 hours will be the worst. If I knew who they were or they were one of ours, I'd already be at their house(s).

[stray]

Within 21 feet, a person armed with a knife is just as dangerous (or moreso) than someone armed with a pistol. (especially if the pistol isn't drawn yet...) Even if the pistol IS drawn, inside of the 21-foot radius, it's an even-money thing with training and a cool head that wins the day.

(But you guys already know that, I know...just saying for the uninitiated.)

[traveler]

Stray, out of curiosity, what does the 21 ft radius have to do with it? I guess I am one of the uninitiated in this area.

[frayne56]

Why are these guys being investigated for doing their jobs ?

[tuffmustang]

frayne56 said:

Why are these guys being investigated for doing their jobs ?

Aren't all police shootings investigated?

[tcrashfx]

Thanks, LS, I'll pass it on.

Why are these guys being investigated for doing their jobs ?

We are always investigated whether we do our jobs, or not.

The 21 foot circle means that anyone, with a knife, can kill you or cut you before you could draw your weapon and return accurate (To stop the threat) fire.

Personally, I am thanking the Lord that three of us went home at the end of the shift and one bad guy didn't because of choices he made.

[stray]

Yup yup...and to expand on what tcrash said, you have to understand that the movies really play up the whole 'handgun power' thing. The fact of the matter is that inside the proper radius, even if you score some pretty impressive center mass hits on the target, it will have enough momentum and time to get to you and be able to 'do things' even though it has suffered wounds that will eventually be fatal. Short of 'putting one in the 'T' zone,' there isn't a magical 'off switch' that you can shoot to deactivate a threat.

To a trained individual, any number of weapons (not just knives) are quite deadly within a small radius. A smart person will always assume that the person they are facing is trained and capable of doing 'bad things' close in...failure to live with this assumption will severely hamper longevity.

[karyotic]

First of all, do these officers carry tasers or pepper spray? I'd rather see those used first. Sadly, he'd probably be out and about in a few years or less.

Secondly, anyone who is pulled over by the law and then brandishes a weapon at them should be taken down. Too bad for them that they had to shoot him

I'm thinking "suicide by cop" on this one. One idiot has caused untold distress to the officers, their cohorts and families, his own family and any number of public servants.
He wanted to die.


Just my opinion.

[stray]

This person deserved what they got. I'm sure the officers had expandable batons, tasers, and pepper spray...all 'less lethal' responses, but they were confronted with deadly force. Anyone's training would have dictated that they reply in kind after their instantaneous assessment of the situation.

[karyotic]

Still sucks for them.

[stray]

No disagreement there. PoPo are people, too...and I'd wager that the vast majority would rather not have to put folk down.

[tcrashfx]

First of all, do these officers carry tasers or pepper spray? I'd rather see those used first. Sadly, he'd probably be out and about in a few years or less.

A knife, brandished and coming at you is ALWAYS trumped by a lethal weapon. Less than lethal force versus lethal force only works in movies and in the minds of most unmugged and unvictimized liberals.

Note: I said (for JiT and Marvell) "most liberals"!

You pull a knife and come at a cop, you will skip a whole hell of a lot of steps and go straight to deadly force in most instances.

We do not play the equal force game (And the Supremes have always backed us up on this one). If we did, or had to, there would be even more of us dead or wounded in the line.

A deadly force continuum for the uninitiated.............

• You bring a fist, I bring a stick.
  
• You bring a knife, I bring a gun.
  
• You bring four, I'll bring ten.
  

I am very glad we are not planning another cop funeral.

Hate it for the other dude.

I hope the deputies are doing alright. It appears they did the right thing. The investigation will tell.

And then they'll have to endure the years of litigation and second-guessing these five or six seconds (In which they had to make the decision, based on the info at hand) as their actions are re-hashed and re-hashed by all the Monday morning quarterbacks.

They are in my prayers.

[Deleted]

So now to the subject of "administrative leave". What does that mean? A day off with pay? Working in the office instead of out on patrol?

[karyotic]

I hope the leave is only for them to regroup and recover.
In this case I prefer to believe what they told us.
Can you imagine what the dispatch people went through?
For the most part they are in a pretty close brotherhood and they went through this thing together.
Sheriff Long seems like a reasonable man.
Is there a staff psychologist in the Sheriff's Department?

[el Gusano]

A friend of mine took down an American most wanted in little ol' Homer last year. The guy's infant died in his arms. My friend, while regretting that the infant died, had no regrets for his action, as there were 100 students in the airport where it happened.

But, in one of the few liberal enclaves in Alaska, everyone started whining about, "Should have gone for the kneecaps", and "If they had just left him alone", and that kind of junk.

Coroner's report indicated that the infant died from his father's gun.

Sad, but better than the alternative. (BTW, if anyone wants to donate a Homer cop car from eBay to him, I'll make sure he gets it.)

[tcrashfx]

I hope the leave is only for them to regroup and recover.

That is true. And to keep them from exposure to the media and to allow the investigation to at least get started. It is seven paid days off.

In this case I prefer to believe what they told us.

Me too. I wish everybody did.

Can you imagine what the dispatch people went through?

Unadulterated hell.

For the most part they are in a pretty close brotherhood and they went through this thing together.

True.

Sheriff Long seems like a reasonable man.

He is. See below, as he instituted the HCSO Chaplain's Division. Nice to have Administrators that have "Been there and done that".

Is there a staff psychologist in the Sheriff's Department?

There is a Chaplaincy and a Critical Incident Stress Debriefing Team that responded to the scene along with a PBA attorney. The Chaplains help with our mental issues and the Stress team does an initial Debrief and follow ups. The attorney helps with the legal aspect. The HCSO also has a EAP (Employee Assistance Program) with access to psychologists if need be.

We tend to circle the wagons after an incident like this one. We have learned (Or been forced) to do this and take a lot of heat for it, but it is a cop thing.

[tcrashfx]

3 deputies on leave following shooting
Wednesday, May 09, 2007

By Lauren Gregory
Staff Writer

Three Hamilton County sheriff's deputies will be on administrative leave for the next week as the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation begins what is expected to be a month-long probe into their involvement in a fatal shooting in Birchwood, officials said.

The deputies' identities will not be released until after the TBI investigation is complete, agency spokeswoman Jennifer Johnson said.

"That's part of what we're still investigating," she said. "Our role is to verify what happened there on the scene."

At least one but possibly multiple officers are believed to have fired at suspect Thomas Earl Jones, 40, on Monday night in the 1100 block of Dolly Pond Road, according to reports.

www.timesfreepress.com/absolutenm/templates/local.aspx?articleid=14956&zoneid=77

[Longshot! [ Saint ]]

Yeah, I remember that day in the academy. Unlike most here that wish 'stern language' and a 'shot with a small stone lying nearby to the ankle to have tripped him instead' would have worked, I have BEEN attacked by a man with a knive 21 feet away, holstered AND unholstered, and that guy had me at "Hell-O". QUITE sobering...and Sobering is something of a 'study' for me.

I appreciate the 'I wish they'd used a taser or baton on the man with the knife' bit. I also do not blame it. If I expected everyone to understand what cops go through, I'd also expect them (cops) to not be 'half crazy animals', and that just wouldn't do. Being a 'half crazy animal' is how you handle a job in which people attack you with knives, and bystanders wish you would use 'sticks and electrical devices' to handle them. Think about it. Logical people like those judging would never put up with such 'non-sense' as people trying to kill you , and what-not.

Like the deputies that night and countless other LIVE cops, I have a very basic rule--one of many simple rules--that I adhere to each night: "When someone tries to kill me...I will probably consider fighting for my life."

Knife = Deadly.

Gun = Deadly.

Result? Fair (albeit not honorable) Fight.


I've had some fairly 'bad experiences', folks. But like these deputies, doing their '9 to 5', I got to come home to await the next judgemental bullshit and lawsuit.

Glad to have them here to defend themselves. The alternative is a lot of 'fucked up shit' I could do with not going through.

Again.



('Peace', my living Brothers.)

[LimitedRecourse]

I hope that the Deputys are getting the support they need & deserve. LS knows where I work, and can request additional back-up if it's needed.

[AHPO]

You pull a knife and come at a cop, you will skip a whole hell of a lot of steps and go straight to deadly force in most instances.


If you pull a knife and come at me you're shot. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.