BlackFox
Senior Forumite
Stay thirsty my friends
Posts: 4,496
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Post by BlackFox on Sept 24, 2009 8:39:30 GMT -5
You can't wage war against a tactic.
How long did the "hot war" in Afghanistan last? A week or so? We've been over there for 7 years and it shows no sign of ending anytime soon and nothing will have been accomplished when we leave except the emptying of our treasury. And that's the good war.
Same but even more shameful for Iraq.
We have played right into Osama's hand. This was his goal as he stated it. We have eroded our very own freedoms and nearly bankrupted our country in a knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of cave dwellers who put out their terror threats on VHS.
Our military is built to kick ass and leave. This nation building shit is bankrupting our country, and we will get nothing positive from it. Does anyone truly believe that Iraq won't descend into anarchy, and reemerge as an Islamic Theocracy as soon as we leave? Afghanistan is already worse than when we got there. Why do we insist on shoving Democracy down the throats of people who don't want it? Afghanistan is tribal. Leave em alone for a few hundred years. If bad guys are there, use surgical strikes.
Occupation is bad mmmmkay?
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frayne
Senior Member
Shortsighted rocket scientist
Posts: 648
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Post by frayne on Sept 24, 2009 11:23:12 GMT -5
Gotta agree with Blackfox. You can't impose democracy with the barrel of a rifle upon a people who have no idea what democracy is all about. In addition, the US has a piss poor record of siding with and supporting corrupt regimes in order to try and impose democracy and over time it usually bites us squarely in the ass.
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Post by gridbug on Sept 24, 2009 11:52:26 GMT -5
Like Bin Laden and the Taliban?  |
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Post by el Gusano on Sept 24, 2009 13:36:14 GMT -5
Once war is declared, we should go in to win, not pussyfoot around.
Period.
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Post by gridbug on Sept 24, 2009 14:56:55 GMT -5
And just how does one win in Afghanistan? Kill everything that moves and burn everything that grows?
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Jay
Senior Forumite
Captain Cupcake
Posts: 5,070
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Post by Jay on Sept 25, 2009 10:37:40 GMT -5
We should leave Afghanistan and Iraq.. Should have left a long time ago...
When the government wastes a trillion + dollars fighting meaningless wars, no biggie.. Talk about health insurance reform, and all hell breaks lose...
What's a better way to spend our money? Killing foreigners in other countries? Or saving American lives at home?...
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Post by Warkitty on Sept 25, 2009 15:25:57 GMT -5
and yet that experience in the Persian Gulf was a drop in the bucket compared to the protracted engagement Frayne took part in (you know, that funny time period when our government last drafted citizens and forced them to go to war). Or, do you actually think your time in service saw as much insanity and bloodshed?
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frayne
Senior Member
Shortsighted rocket scientist
Posts: 648
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Post by frayne on Sept 25, 2009 17:48:51 GMT -5
The U.S. is on track to have 68,000 troops in Afghanistan by the end of 2009, but the Pentagon said McChrystal would ask this week for as many as 40,000 new forces. Some question the wisdom of sending more troops to support a government facing allegations of widespread fraud in last month's disputed vote.
On Friday, election officials agreed to recount results from a sample of 10 percent of polling stations with suspect results in a push to release long-delayed results before winter makes any runoff vote impossible. Though preliminary results show President Hamid Karzai winning, there are enough questionable ballots that the recounts could force him into a runoff with his top challenger.
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Post by el Gusano on Sept 25, 2009 21:51:59 GMT -5
I'm just answering a question (actually, it became two) that was asked, not comparing myself to anyone.
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Post by el Gusano on Sept 28, 2009 8:25:32 GMT -5
Or, do you actually think your time in service saw as much insanity and bloodshed? I've been thinking about this, and think you should redirect your question to the men who were aboard the USS Starke. |
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Post by gridbug on Sept 28, 2009 10:10:59 GMT -5
Or, do you actually think your time in service saw as much insanity and bloodshed? I've been thinking about this, and think you should redirect your question to the men who were aboard the USS Starke. You really think one ship damaged (not even sunk) and 39 killed comparable to years of a police action that left a couple million people dead? |
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Post by el Gusano on Sept 28, 2009 13:17:05 GMT -5
You really think the current war with low casualty rates is all that bad?
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Post by Justin Thyme on Sept 28, 2009 13:47:10 GMT -5
I have a few friends and family members that served in Viet Nam. None of them liked it but the experience seems to have been different for each one. One was a POW toward the end of the war and he won't talk about it. Another spent most of his time around Saigon and saw no direct action. A cousin was wounded by shrapnel in a firefight and got the purple heart but the wound was minor and he has no lasting physical effects from the wound. His mood changed between the time he left and the time he got back. I have a couple of more friends that have made little comments about their time there but never elaborated.
My son served in Iraq II. He was a prison guard at Camp Bucca. They had some very evil men locked away there along with some poor sots who just got caught up in sweeps. He was involved with putting down a couple of riots and the CHU next to the one he lived in was hit by a rocket killing the TCN living there.
War is hell for those living through it. Whether you served in WWII, like my dad, Korea, like my wife's step father, Viet Nam like my cousin and several friends and classmates, Iraq I like another cousin or Iraq II like my son you have my respect and my thanks. For the person going through the terror of being shot at and people trying to blow you up that moment is their reality and no one war or even hostile action has a monopoly on the terror.
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Post by gridbug on Sept 28, 2009 14:54:50 GMT -5
Current war? Silly me, I thought you said the USS Stark.
Without question. There is no good war, even if there is the occasional necessary war.
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Post by el Gusano on Sept 28, 2009 15:51:41 GMT -5
I'm not even going to pretend you're really that obtuse.
I was comparing your statement about the Starke with all the moaning going on about the current war with very few casualties overall.
War is war for those who are directly affected.
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Post by LimitedRecourse on Sept 28, 2009 15:52:54 GMT -5
Does Grenada count?
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Post by fuzzyscot on Sept 28, 2009 17:49:49 GMT -5
I would say "lets bomb Afganistan back to the stone age", but in truth they are not very far away from it already. the biggest problem with dealing with the Middle East is that they do not "Do" democracy. period, end of discussion. no amount of American lives, American dollars, and well meaning, but ignorant politicians is going to change that. we should just pull out, and let the sand fall as it may.
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