Longshot! [ Saint ]
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Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise
I'm the Broken One who Fixes It
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 14:06:02 GMT -5
Post by Longshot! [ Saint ] on Dec 6, 2007 14:06:02 GMT -5
People that blame the Server instead of the Restaurant for bad service, should be slapped. Resoundingly.
People that believe the Restaurant should be blamed for the errant bad server, should be slapped. Resoundingly.
People that do not know the Difference, should be slapped. Resoundingly.
I never worked in 'the Industry', but I married someone that did. That made it MY business.
Business was Good at J. Alexanders, and still is. She was paid more than I make as a 10 year Civic employee. That deserves a 'duh', but still. It was mostly undeclared cash, and no one I serves pays taxes, so why should she start?
Besides the easy access to drugs and 'dirty ass action', I also learned it was HARD GOSH-DARNED WORK, and I treat it as such. RESOUNDINGLY so.
The difference between a Good & Bad tip, humorously enough, was about $2-3 bucks. Amazing.
I work in Bad Neighborhoods where $3 bucks is a GREAT tip, and I try to double it. And I eat $5 dollar 'Chopped Weiner Plates', shitheads.
People that can justify stiffing a Waitress for ANY amount because (PARDON me while I laugh at their sick souls) 'They chose the business, and they deserve it, it's their bosses fault & their low expectations fault, not ours', are CHEAP SHITBAGS that deserve a SLOW DEATH. You blame a college student or single mom for Low Expectations, AND fine them for it? FUCK YOU, you CHEAP SHITBAG SCUM. This is not 'Reservoir Dogs', they do NOT expect to live on $1.85 as paid by their employers--they expect to live on wages paid by OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, and when a snot-nosed chef fails to prep your salad on time and you 'fine' the waitress for not getting your roughage succinctly--you are doing nothing but lining your DITCH IN HELL with more thorns and salt, you evil cheap short-sighted SHITBAGS.
Color me 'jaded'. But I do NOT victimize VICTIMS in my life when possible, and do not encourage such. I live with shame for MUCH greater things.
You should not live with them for LESS.
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rossbilly
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 14:54:24 GMT -5
Post by rossbilly on Dec 6, 2007 14:54:24 GMT -5
I just got back from our department's Christmas luncheon @ Acropolis, and thought to revisit this thread.
We had roughly 33 people spread amongst 6 tables, with one server per two tables. I purposely spent a good deal of time comparing the 3 servers. The first two were articulate, friendly, and well versed about the menu. They ran their butts off carrying huge trays that I probably couldn't balance (and I'm nearly twice their size). Kept everyone smiling with their attitude, AND happy with the service they received.
Now, the third person... no such luck. This person waited the table where I sat, and I got the feeling that they'd never waited tables before. Extremely quiet (could barely be heard), no smile to be found, and new absolutely NOTHING about the menu. Never even asked what we'd like to drink, until a coworker said something. While a reasonable job of keeping drinks filled & handing out the correct food DID occur, there wasn't much more accomplished.
After everyone else said 'no thanks' to dessert, the server asked if we were ready for our checks. I was STUFFED & couldn't imagine ordering more, so I said 'yes'. Unfortunately, other tables began receiving their desserts, and I remembered that my wife loves Tiramisu from Acropolis. When the server returned with the checks, I said "I'm sorry, but could I add a Tiramisu to-go?". When she rolled her eyes & scribbled furiously, even my coworkers commented on her unprofessionalism (well, that ain't quite how they said it LOL).
Did I pay the mandatory 15% gratuity? Yep, because that's what the menu said & I read it before ordering. Do I think she deserved that much? Not sure. I mean, I'm probably guilty of rolling my eyes @ someone before... I know darned well the OTHER servers would have received more than the minimum!
For once, I did not bring such service to management's attention - but only because I know they work hard to keep customers happy & are surely aware of this person's lack of experience. Best I could do was attempt to 'de-personalize' the comments made by my coworker (one person who kept making mean comments about the server).
Absolutely no reason for me to not return to Acropolis, especially since my dear wife loves it so. It is the ONLY Greek restaurant we've ever enjoyed since living in Athens Greece for 3 months, nearly 15 years ago. However, I would quietly & discreetly assure that person was not our server, when I return for a romantic evening with my bride.
(damn, THAT was long winded... anyone care to discuss / comment?)
Billy
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Babs
Senior Forumite
Diet Spryte
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Posts: 3,674
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 15:14:28 GMT -5
Post by Babs on Dec 6, 2007 15:14:28 GMT -5
Excellent commentary! You and your lucky wife sound like people we would like to go out to eat with...Please come to the Christmas Notta!
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 16:30:28 GMT -5
Post by LimitedRecourse on Dec 6, 2007 16:30:28 GMT -5
What Shot said.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 18:03:16 GMT -5
Post by twisted23 on Dec 6, 2007 18:03:16 GMT -5
longshot i think i might like you! its nice to see someone "outside of the industry" is capable of understanding. sometimes we don't always choose the job, the job chooses us. for someone like my co-worker, (the engineer major with a large brood at home) a restuarant is the only place flexible enough in their scheduling to work around someone who has classes during the day, children to take care of on certain days while their better half may be working, etc. so no, tncoaster, it may not have occurred to you, that he, and other servers, may not be capable of obtaining a different type of job for the time being. a lot of us being college students, we may work a "lesser" job for now so we can be better off on down the road. there's a penny for your thoughts, because obviously some people REALLY need that gosh darn penny.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 18:15:15 GMT -5
Post by daworm on Dec 6, 2007 18:15:15 GMT -5
Get off your cross, Shot. No one but KKKoaster has suggesting being anything close to deserving that rant, and no one expects better from him. All that's been said is that some waiters are shitty and shouldn't be doing the job, and shouldn't be encouraged to stay by tipping them just as much as someone who does the job well. That's not saying they should be waterboarded with the diarrhea of 1,000 drunk Mexicans. That's not saying they are shitstains on the underwear of society. Just that they are shitty waiters and waitresses. And just as good waiters are gold, shitty ones... well, fuck the shitty ones.
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ScarlettP
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 18:36:16 GMT -5
Post by ScarlettP on Dec 6, 2007 18:36:16 GMT -5
Once upon a long time ago... we left a bad waitress a $3 with a picture of Bill Clinton blowing a whistle on it. The back of the fake bill looked A LOT like a $20. We actually left the restaurant and stood outside the window to watch the bi-otch's reaction. She smiled happily when she saw the folded bill on the table. When she unfolded it, her mouth fell open and she actually SAT DOWN a the table and stared at it. We left laughing.
Why? First, she had a dreadful attitude. I don't remember exactly what all went wrong, but I do remember it was basically every thing she did. I ALSO remember that I had ordered Hawaiian Chicken. When it arrived, I complained that it did not have a pineapple on top and that I wanted one. She refused to do anything about it. I actually defended the woman on several of her 'missteps' that she might be tired or had a long day. I let everything go. UNTIL we came time for desert. When my friend moved his plate to make room for his cake - THERE was my pineapple! STUCK to the BOTTOM of his plate! Yep. The bitch had not balanced his plate on the side of mine, she put it on top of my FOOD! Then, my coffee to go with my cake was 1/2 a cup of grounds with a little rank water in it. That was the final straw. We left her a "F.U." tip.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 21:02:11 GMT -5
Post by LimitedRecourse on Dec 6, 2007 21:02:11 GMT -5
Karma works both ways.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 21:35:03 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 6, 2007 21:35:03 GMT -5
My, my … seems this little thread has had quite a beating since I was here last. Gracious … where to begin?
First of all, I would like to address ‘twisted:’ honey, the mistake your friend made (the loyal friend who called you running to this thread, thinking that you were somehow under attack) was that she took it personally on your behalf. Unfortunately, you had already taken the receipt (with the note that was similar to mine) personally, and, of course, took my comments on the thread personally. Perhaps I should have been more circumspect in my behaviour that night (who of us does not act ‘off the cuff,’ at times?), but, as anyone could have seen (and most people who commented here seem to have, actually), my comments were directed at the industry and the practice of tipping in general.
You will notice I did not even elaborate on my ‘service’ that night, as it really wasn’t horrid ~ there just wasn’t much of it. Seeing Red’s comments, I can certainly understand now why. Please forgive that misunderstanding. The service certainly wasn’t ‘bad’ enough to warrant speaking to management ~ I have rarely had service that bad anywhere (in any country).
Now, I am really surprised and disappointed that, on behalf of your co-worker who was, apparently, our primary server, you took my comments on his appearance seriously. Please refer back to your friend’s addition to the thread where she first mentioned you ~ she described you as ‘the cute blonde.’ My response to this bit of ridiculousness (what does the fact that you may be ‘cute’ have to do with anything??) was to make some smartass comment about not remembering whether or not he was cute (then later, “mediocre-in-appearance”) in my physical description regarding the male server I saw at the table. I certainly hope that you were not immature enough to report any of this to him (which would, of course, have ignorantly and unnecessarily hurt his feelings and discouraged him).
I can certainly understand how difficult your job is … another reason I’ve never attempted it … but, as someone who is ~ once again ~ in the service industry, I can tell you that the principle in both of our jobs is the same: service. The best possible service that can be rendered, no matter the personal circumstances under which we labour, and under which our business labours. Another sad point about all of this, to me, is that you seem to feel that this is somehow unusual ~ some sort of ‘cruel and unusual punishment.’ No ~ when you are in business ~ any business ~ the ‘story’ is the same. Has been, for all of time. Your appearance (and that of your business) must appear the best possible ~ no matter what is going on the lives of the employees or the business.
I grew up in politics (up to the federal level) and business ~ I can tell you ‘horror stories’ from personal experience about being abused, then having to be dressed up like a perfect little doll from a perfect family, and paraded in Washington and elsewhere, having to smile, laugh, act well-adjusted, and as if I loved my abusers (my parents), just to keep up the family/political/business appearance. I know, therefore, that it is not easy. An amusing story along those lines, however, would be something that just happened to me this past Saturday, at my office at the inn: I had taken some medication that, suddenly and without warning after a couple of hours, made me feel quite ill to my stomach. I had guests walking in and out, up and down the stairs, right outside my office. Just as I made to arise from my desk chair with the plan to try to get by some people and into the ladies’ room, I felt the ‘problem’ wouldn’t wait; so, I grabbed a garbage container from under the desk, thank God just in time, sat up, grabbed a tissue, and cleaned my face, just in time to greet ~ with a smile ~ the next people walking into the office. They never had any idea what I was feeling ~ which is how it should be. (I am sure my earlier life training helped me with this! LOL)
You have to remember that it’s all for the appearance of your business. You are asking that we look at your business from your perspective (and there is every merit to that, of course!), but, why don’t you take a look at things from your customers’ perspectives? You have a great and rare opportunity here to see what seems a pretty fair representation of what most of your customers think and expect when they walk in your door ~ whether or not you feel it ‘fair.’ Business is business. Just like life, it’s frequently ‘not fair.’ That’s just how it is. As Tom Hanks said in ‘A League of Their Own,’ “There’s no crying in baseball!!” It’s like complaining that the sky is blue ~ where does that get you? Unfortunately, however, you have given your possible customers here a glowing example of your general attitude in serving them. Possibly YOU should be more circumspect in your commentaries, in future, when representing your business? Just a thought.
Now, regarding the practice of asking if folks would like a refill ~ I really have no problem with that, as I normally suspend conversation when approached by a server, anyway (I appreciate their attention, but also appreciate privacy in my conversations); however, it used to be (and still is, in finer establishments that I’ve frequented in various countries) that servers and served alike understood the practice of a customer placing their hand over the top of their glass if they did not wish a refill, when approached by a server with a pitcher/bottle/etc.. Simple. Solves the question completely. No further exchange needed between the customer and the server on that score.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 6, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
I borrowed this from 'daworm' in the Jetstream thread, and it sums up, exactly, what I feel should be taking place in the restaurant industry:
"I've always found wait staff wages being below normal wages to be stupid. Tips should be something extra for good service, not something required to make ends meet."
This was my original point (implied) in the original post to this thread. It has always bothered me that wait staff is not just paid a 'regular' salary, then, if they are exceptional, the customer has the option to tip them. It does not seem fair that servers should have to rely upon the possibility of tips (or the amount of them) in order to survive. How are they to even keep up a budget? Doesn't make sense.
Is there anyone here who can shed some light on the subject? What is the reasoning behind the current 'system,' other than restaurant-owner-greed?
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Milk
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Posts: 545
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 22:34:54 GMT -5
Post by Milk on Dec 6, 2007 22:34:54 GMT -5
I borrowed this from 'daworm' in the Jetstream thread, and it sums up, exactly, what I feel should be taking place in the restaurant industry: "I've always found wait staff wages being below normal wages to be stupid. Tips should be something extra for good service, not something required to make ends meet." This was my original point (implied) in the original post to this thread. It has always bothered me that wait staff is not just paid a 'regular' salary, then, if they are exceptional, the customer has the option to tip them. It does not seem fair that servers should have to rely upon the possibility of tips (or the amount of them) in order to survive. How are they to even keep up a budget? Doesn't make sense. Is there anyone here who can shed some light on the subject? What is the reasoning behind the current 'system,' other than restaurant-owner-greed? Keeps you from paying $150 a steak at Chili's. (Hyperbole)Helps to get the server to go "above and beyond" for a better tip. Personally, though I benefited greatly from the "auto 18%" at Ed's, I would rather it be up to the individual paying the check what I am tipped. Unfortunately, you couldn't count on a fair tip 85% of the time in that situation. Many scenarios like the one I described taught me that. Tipping is part of the price you pay for having someone bring stuff to you when you ask for it. Without that you might as well go to McDonald's. I often wonder why people that complain about tipping (not saying you're one of them!) even go to restaurants where they are waited upon. Here's something else that will shock and amaze: sometimes, the customer really is wrong. Just because you are paying a portion of a waiter's salary does not require the waiter to metaphorically suck your cock. If you act like an asshole to your server and they become irritated, that doesn't give you the right to stiff them. Waiters are not vending machines. They are people with just as much right to respect as you have. "Server" does not equal "Slave." The next time you (any of you) have a ladies dinner night out with 33 people at the same table, pay close attention to your table mates. Are you all demanding the waiter's attention at once? What are your friends really getting upset about? Did six people asks for their checks all at once? Was your friend being as pleasant to the server as she expected the server to be to her? If the server does not have pen & paper in hand prepared to take orders, 33 people telling the server what they want will lead to mistakes a lot of times. People make mistakes, too. How would you like it if everytime you made a slip-up at work, you didn't get paid for that hour? As for you, KKKoaster, when you get up off your disability-check collecting ass and start working at a restaurant, actually having to, y'know, work for your supper, then you can maybe try to string two or three words together in an English sentence and comment on how easy waiters have it. Till then, go Rape Yourself, you neo-fascist hypocritical fuck.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 22:44:11 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 6, 2007 22:44:11 GMT -5
Oh, goodness ~ I certainly believe in treating wait staff very well (I will reiterate here that my comment on my neighbour's receipt was directed toward management, and not the server) ... or anyone in service, actually ... even with my own housekeepers. Although a 'firm mistress,' which is necessary, I am always fair, and always also try to relate to them on a personal (although appropriate) level, as well (another reason I am glad to learn Spanish, while they are learning English, and we all try to help one another quite a bit along those lines). I won't go into more detail, but I do attempt to be fair and humane, all the while making certain my guests are receiving the service they should both expect and receive.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 22:44:52 GMT -5
Post by Justin Thyme on Dec 6, 2007 22:44:52 GMT -5
Okay, many counter type restaurants I visit have tip jars. I'm not being served at my table here so how much should I drop in the jar? 10%? 15%? 20%? And if I tip here why not at McDonald's. I've actually received good service from a McDonald's before.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 22:57:41 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 6, 2007 22:57:41 GMT -5
Regarding tipping where we are not being waited upon in the traditional sense ~ I will give Rembrandt's, and my habit there, as an example: as some of you know who frequent Rembrandt's, the service there is sort of a composite, if you will, of the two traditional forms of restaurant service. The customer waits in line to order, places the order, and if the order is something that needs to be prepared in the kitchen, rather than handed over the counter to the customer at the time, then it is carried out to the customer's table by the chef who prepared it (or, occasionally, a barista, or member of management ~ whoever is available for quicker service). If a 'special' drink (such as lattes, capaccino, etc.), then a barista prepares it for the customer as they wait at the counter.
There does reside at the register a tip jar. I see how hard these young people work, on a daily basis, and purchase SOMETHING there at least 5 days per week, when I am onsite (as well as pick up soup for lunch for my housekeepers). Therefore, I ALWAYS place SOMETHING in the tip jar (which is divided amongst the baristas and chefs) ~ I don't have time, normally, to figure percentages, but they know me, and know that I am always generous, and tip EVERY time ~ sometimes 2 ~ 3 times per day, 5 days per week.
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Milk
Senior Member
Sweet Brown Liquor God
Sweet Brown Liquor God
Posts: 545
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 23:01:39 GMT -5
Post by Milk on Dec 6, 2007 23:01:39 GMT -5
Okay, many counter type restaurants I visit have tip jars. I'm not being served at my table here so how much should I drop in the jar? 10%? 15%? 20%? And if I tip here why not at McDonald's. I've actually received good service from a McDonald's before. Nobody that I know in the food-service industry has ever turned down money when it is presented for a job well done. Since the wage of the OTC restaurant is set, I would say that it is between you and what you want to give. Having worked as a Barista, I would say that 10% made me deleriously happy. More was always better though. ;D
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 23:27:04 GMT -5
Post by twisted23 on Dec 6, 2007 23:27:04 GMT -5
ohhhh my....
A. do NOT have the audacity to make references to my level of maturity....if i recall, i am the one attempting to explain why and how some restaurants operate the way they do, not the one who placed a below the belt, unnecessary, juvenile term on a piece of paper. you say you geared it towards management?? THINK LIKE AN ADULT SHOULD. who's hands did that piece of paper hit first? the server's. therefore, who did it have an effect on first? yet again, THE SERVER. lady, look before you leap. the logical, MATURE thing to do in this situation, were your comment indeed geared toward management, would be to speak to the manager. (crazy i know, but that little thing called COMMUNICATION can work wonders.) i am not the ignorant one here.
B. what is this "cruel and unusual" bullshit. did i say my arm is twisted into serving? did i say i couldn't handle it? did i say it wasn't fair? absolutely not. don't check your comprehensive skills at the door and then proceed to shoot your responses back so blindly. anything i said about how server's must leave their problems behind and "slap on a fake smile" was simply an attempt to get people (not yourself because i appreciate you work in a similar industry and understand) to realize what the grass is like on the other side of the fence. what attitude have i given my customer's a glimpse into exactly? an attitude where i say i like my job and do it to the best of my ability? an attitude where i say yes, i (like you and everyone else) have bad days and do suck it up sometime, but i am still polite? you are not my savior, so quit condescending me. i never said "whoa is me, i'm so abused at work!" my rants were in short saying, i see and understand the customer's point, and in all fairness, this is my response from the other perspective. quit acting like you consider others and actually practice what you are falling short of preaching.
save us all some time and read before you respond. don't accuse people of reading your original thread incorrectly and jumping to conclusions when you are doing the same.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 23:55:08 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 6, 2007 23:55:08 GMT -5
Fortunately and unfortunately, people will interpret your words and mine in their own way, react accordingly, and be judged accordingly (for right or wrong), according to their level of knowledge and maturity ~ just as you have done. So let it be.
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Tipping
Dec 6, 2007 23:58:52 GMT -5
Post by twisted23 on Dec 6, 2007 23:58:52 GMT -5
agree to disagree i presume
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Post by twisted23 on Dec 7, 2007 0:07:01 GMT -5
as we both are in the wrong, (i admit some remarks i have made may have been), we are both in the right in the same respect. i don't care what your viewpoint is in the respect that, i DO want to hear it....different views and different people are what make the world go round, and i appreciate people who are passionate and willing to argue and discuss things they stand for (like we all have done here)......(even if it is my silly little serving job )
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Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 7, 2007 0:10:46 GMT -5
In that, you are correct. It has greatly surprised me that this thread has inspired the sort of passion one would have only expected in a thread involving a much more important subject to human life; such as drunk driving, for example.
But, the western world is what it is.
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Post by twisted23 on Dec 7, 2007 0:12:56 GMT -5
i agree
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Longshot! [ Saint ]
Moderator
Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise
I'm the Broken One who Fixes It
Posts: 4,309
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Post by Longshot! [ Saint ] on Dec 7, 2007 3:28:56 GMT -5
Geez, Worm. I wasn't yelling at anyone.
I was just Yelling.
You know how 'I get' when a little...Empassioned about something.
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Post by daworm on Dec 7, 2007 8:52:11 GMT -5
Well, it is fun calling people recycled douche bags, sometimes.
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rossbilly
Senior Member
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Posts: 542
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Post by rossbilly on Dec 7, 2007 9:23:50 GMT -5
well, at least you're good @ NOT keeping stuff all bottled inside! Some days, I could only hope to be so honest...
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Tipping
Dec 7, 2007 16:46:22 GMT -5
Post by LimitedRecourse on Dec 7, 2007 16:46:22 GMT -5
Good thing this thread stayed on topic.
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Tipping
Dec 7, 2007 18:22:34 GMT -5
Post by augie47 on Dec 7, 2007 18:22:34 GMT -5
Good thing this thread stayed on topic. as usual
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Tipping
Dec 8, 2007 13:03:50 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 8, 2007 13:03:50 GMT -5
Regarding tipping where we are not being waited upon in the traditional sense ~ I will give Rembrandt's, and my habit there, as an example: as some of you know who frequent Rembrandt's, the service there is sort of a composite, if you will, of the two traditional forms of restaurant service. The customer waits in line to order, places the order, and if the order is something that needs to be prepared in the kitchen, rather than handed over the counter to the customer at the time, then it is carried out to the customer's table by the chef who prepared it (or, occasionally, a barista, or member of management ~ whoever is available for quicker service). If a 'special' drink (such as lattes, capaccino, etc.), then a barista prepares it for the customer as they wait at the counter. There does reside at the register a tip jar. I see how hard these young people work, on a daily basis, and purchase SOMETHING there at least 5 days per week, when I am onsite (as well as pick up soup for lunch for my housekeepers). Therefore, I ALWAYS place SOMETHING in the tip jar (which is divided amongst the baristas and chefs) ~ I don't have time, normally, to figure percentages, but they know me, and know that I am always generous, and tip EVERY time ~ sometimes 2 ~ 3 times per day, 5 days per week. Just realized I'd failed to add that these baristas, etc., are already paid a 'normal wage,' and the tips are, indeed, extra.
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Longshot! [ Saint ]
Moderator
Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise
I'm the Broken One who Fixes It
Posts: 4,309
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Post by Longshot! [ Saint ] on Dec 9, 2007 9:40:54 GMT -5
I stand by my message.
I stand by it's follow-up, too.
Just because I'm yelling...
Doesn't mean I am yelling at someone.
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Tipping
Dec 9, 2007 10:44:10 GMT -5
Post by victoriasuzette on Dec 9, 2007 10:44:10 GMT -5
I stand by my message. I stand by it's follow-up, too. Just because I'm yelling...
Doesn't mean I am yelling at someone. Just needed to say something, this morning? lol
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Tipping
Dec 9, 2007 17:47:50 GMT -5
Post by bignana on Dec 9, 2007 17:47:50 GMT -5
Would someone explain to this county girl what a Barista is?
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